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mgnv

i realized that might be the other explanation but yours was so much more fascinating

i am so much cleverer this morning and i learnt a few jokes as well

thank you :-D

David - you got the time right, but:
A.M. = ante meridian (i.e., before noon), just like
P.M. = post meridian ((i.e., after noon).

Ante- is usually used as a prefix meaning before, either in time or place - it has pretty much the same meaning as the prefix pre-, but this would hardly work in the am/pm context.

It is, actually, a Latin word and one occassionally meets it in this guise - here's a bit from Wikipedia:
The Treaty of Ghent, signed on 24 December 1814 in the Flemish city of Ghent, was the peace treaty that ended the War of 1812 between the United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The treaty restored relations between the two nations to status quo ante bellum - that is, it restored the borders of the two countries to their accepted position before the commencement of hostilities.
[status quo ante bellum translates literally as the status that was in being before the war]

In the US, one does meet it as the adjective antebellum, (literally, pre-war, meaning pre-American Civil War,) usually referring to mansions or plantations/estates.

Antediluvian means before the flood (i.e., Noah's flood).

Antechamber or anteroom is the chamber/room you go into before you get to go into the main chamber/room.

Anterior (and posterior) are related adjectives.

The anterior cruciate ligament is a ligament within the knee.
It starts in the rear of the notch in the femur (thigh-bone) and crosses ove to attach on the front of the tibia (shin-bone).
[There's also a posterior cruciate ligament - it goes the other way, and attaches to the rear of the tibia - the ACL is on the outside of the PCL when they cross. You learn this sort of thing when you've got kids who ski.]

I've a Canadian-trained dentist, but she uses anterior/posterior when she does a dental examine and calls out to her note-taking assistent "filling for tooth 4.5 anterior aspect, and a bit of lingual aspect"
So tooth 4.5 is a lower right first premolar (1-4=UR, UL, LL, LR and .# counts back from centre line) and anterior aspect means the front edge - the ligual aspect is the tongue side.

Ah, that could be it. As you say, the writing is to precise to be anything else really

Sorry if I led anyone up the wrong path with Aughton

B

mgnv

wonderful piece of deduction

i was sure the enumerators writing style was FAR too precise for it to read Aughton

SO am i correct in thinking

1 h (our) A (fter) M (idnght) ???

David pm'ed me a scan of the b.cert.

The mystery entry is a time and place, viz:
1h A. M. Lathom

In 1875, there was a GRO directive saying times were to be entered for multiple births, and only for multiple births. This was the general practice before then, but there were some registrars who didn't follow that practice, as we see here.

here are the youngest siblings of lawrence monk on the 1851 census

1851 lathom lancs
southern division
ormskirk

mary monk 1817 34
chorley lancs
head
earthenware dealer

mary monk b 1836 15
preston lancs
daughter
earthenware dealer

william monk 1839 12
preston
son
at home

richard monk 1841 10
lunt lancs
son
at home

the 3 children are clearly the three youngest children of william and mary monk. lawrence is the eldest child of william and mary monk

BUT the lady listed above is obviously too young to be the mother of lawrence monk b 1820 or 1818 although she is "head" and the children are all listed as sons or daighters

this family will be the death of me lol

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/_resources/keepsafe/thumb.ashx?id=5586779&at=1&mk=12381537&ok=12381537&c=False&ff=False&pl=1&w=640&h=640&q=70&rk=&d=http://cdn.genesreunited.co.uk/_resources/images/keepsafe/notavailable_640x640.jpg&ex=D136F49FE8D9285298E844D0E3B86F58

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/5586785


link above is to "where born" if it works

I'm afraid I can't decipher but if had to choose would agree with Aughton.

As you may know, http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ are currently retrofitting the mum's ms to their birth indexes. I had a look for Monk births with mum's ms=Ireland, but all the relevant subdistricts aren't done yet (the important ones, like Wigan & Leigh pre-1912 were completed earlier this year, eh). Anyways:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1841 MONK William Longton Preston IRELAND LONG/2/62
1857 MONK Margaret Croston Preston IRELAND CRO/7/61
1859 MONK Elizabeth Croston Preston IRELAND CRO/8/33

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MONK Lawrence IRELAND Elizabeth Preston, St John Preston 229/2/38

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 28 Oct 1839 St John, Preston, Lancs.
Lawrence Monk - (X), 21, Dealer in pots, Bachelor, Friday St
Elizabeth Ireland - (X), 21, Earthenware Dealer, Spinster, Bow Lane
Groom's Father: William Monk, Earthenware Dealer
Bride's Father: John Ireland, Earthenware Dealer
Witness: Thomas Aspindell, (X); Martha Jamieson, (X)
Married by: J. C. Whish Curate
Notes: [Married by Banns or Licence not entered]
Register: Marriages 1839 - 1841, Page 19, Entry 38
Source: LDS Film 93993

1hAU ??

There is a Aughton, Lathom, Ormskirk - could that be it?


From GENUKI

ORMSKIRK REGISTRATION DISTRICT

Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.4.1974 (to become part of West Lancashire, Crosby, and Knowsley registration districts).
Sub-districts : Aughton, Bickerstaffe, Formby, Halsall, Lathom, North Meols, Ormskirk, Scarisbrick, Southport, Skelmersdale, Skelmersdale & Holland, Tarleton.
GRO volumes : XXI (1837–51), 8b (1852–1946), 10F (1946–74).

Message received OK David but I can't open the attachments on my phone.

Will have a look when I get home tonight and can look on proper pc.

MaryCeleste
The birth certificate for Mary Monk arrived this morning. The enumerator appears to have a very clear writing style, however the address is difficult to decipher. My family and I have tried to read it today.
The certificate is as follows:
Registration district: Ormskirk
1851, Birth in the sub-district of Lathom, in the county of Lancaster.
Number 90
When and where born: 25th January 1851,
This is the difficult bit, our interpretation of it is
1 (followed by a small h in superscript?) . A. U Lathom
Name if any: Mary
Sex: Girl
Name and Surname of father: Lawrence Monk
Name Surname and Maiden Surname of mother: Elizabeth Monk, formerly Ireland
Occupation of father: Earthenware dealer
Signature description and residence of informant: X the mark of Lawrence Monk, Father, Lathom
When registered: Eighth February, 1851
Signature of Registrar: John (Last name indecipherable) Registrar.
I’ve also attached two copies of the birth certificate, one being a close up of the address that I have struggled to decipher. I would love to know what the line means or stands for and where this family are on the 1851 census return.
HELP
I've just realised I don't actually know how to attach these files, please could you let me know so i could send you them? :-S

Held every 20years so That would be 1822, 1842 and 1862.
She died aged 83 in 1878

Incidentally I have also been at 3 Guilds and walked in 2 of them.

mike

my aunt who was also called flora said her namesake flora ireland "walked the preston guild 3 times"

MC
Have filed the article so well I can't find it.
Would appreciate a copy.
Thanks

Purchaser of the grave, William Ireland 1840 - 1899 was the son of Flora Ireland ( nee Swales) born in Dent 1795
Bought in 1878 for his mother's funeral.

He married his cousin Elizabeth Morrison ( nee Gordon) in 1876 who had also previously been married to John Swales.( another relation)

I'm afraid I don't have much info on the Monk side as I am descended from the Swales/ Ireland side.

We both go back to Flora Swales who is my 3x Great Grandmother

David, have sent the newspaper article to your message inbox.

mgnv

MONK Alice 33 Chorley Preston CHO/15/65

that death i think is lawrences sister

MONK Alice 3 Preston Preston PRES/68/76

that death is baby alice in the fire

MONK Lawrence 46 Ormskirk Preston OK/9/71

that death i have always assumed to be my lawrence BUT the age is wrong as in 1864 lawrence would be 44

narie celeste

"Do you want a copy of the newspaper article about the poor child's death?"

yes please