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Far flung theory , could be total off the wall

What if George's father and Thomas's mother married ?


Found this and just made me wonder
( possibly not this marriage but a similar one ??

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Marriages Mar 1878

Beams Elizabeth - Pontypool 11a 144a
Watkins David - Pontypool 11a 144a

Dear All - I think my guess at Thomas' birth is the red herring. I think that birth in Thornbury is our Royal Naval guy and I don't think he has anything to do with Minnie Maria.

So...I'll send for the marriage cert as soon as I can and will post results then :-)

But Mike ...they married in 1894 so IF that was the correct Thomas then he should have had married status in 1901????

Aaaghhh roll on pay-day I am going to have to invest in two birth certificates and maybe Minnie's first marriage to ease my curiosity :-)

1871

Thomas W Beams
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Beams
Mother's Name: Charlotte Beams
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitfield, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Thornbury
Ecclesiastical parish: Falfield
Town: Falfield
County/Island: Gloucestershire


Robert Beams 28
Charlotte Beams 26
Mary Ann Beams 6
Thomas W Beams 4
Ellen L Beams 1

Thomas Beames

Birth 15 Aug 1866 in Thornbury, Gloucestershire, , England
Death Mar 1933 in Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

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1901 - Thomas is recorded as single aboard ship

Thomas Beames
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Crew
Gender: Male
Where born: Falfield, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Vessels
Town: Portland
County/Island: Dorset



So maybe take "widow" with a pinch of salt ?

Chris - I have discounted this one because he's alive in 1911 (and I suspect he's the one who dies in Portsmouth in 1933)...unless of course she wasn't REALLY a widow :-)

Yes that's the enigma census Mike....Minnie was married to Thomas Beames. So the ONLY way she could be George's sister-in-law is if Thomas was George's brother or probably half-brother.My guess is that George was illegitimate and that his grandmother was Margaret Watkins born Rowdan Glos., Which of the Watkins daughters was his mother is open to debate...I have an 1871 census that I think is him. There is another grandson - Henry Ball - who I think is Alice Watkins' daughet from her marriage to a Ball...So in same census is a Dinah...but is she his mother????

If you guys can't second guess me...then I might just get the birth certs of George and Thomas - it may be worth £18.50 to be a salve!

Births Sep 1866 (>99%)
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BEAMS Thomas W Thornbury 6a 172


Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services.
Name Beames, Thomas Willm
Official Number: 150084
Place of Birth: Falfield Thornbury
Date of Birth: 22 August 1866

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/royal-naval-seamen.htm

(saw above, if fitting anywhere!)

Chris :)

edits (he could below)

Deaths Mar 1933 (>99%)
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Beames Thomas W 66 Portsmouth 2b 912

Just to clarify..

1891- Number 26 ( looks like Tinpenny's Lane)

George Close 69
Hester Close 64 - wife
Henry Close 35 - son
William Beames 7 - grandson
--------------------------------------------

Number 27 - away from home
--------------------------------------

Number 28

George Watkins - single
Minnie Beames- sister in law
Fanny Beames - niece
Godfrey Beames - nephew



So Minnie could have been married to George's brother or maybe half brother

mmm Ann...not sure about Alice. I don't have her in the tree...and she wasn't with George and Hester in 1881

Yes Mike - without wishing "to believe" everything on Ancestry I am fairly comfortable that Charlotte died in 1864, George remarried in 1865 and Minnie was their only child.

The interesting thing about Eliza - and I digress - is that I have found her in two different places in 1881 - and I'm fairly sure it is her in both cases!!!!

?????????????


Alice Close, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "

Name: Oliver Fred Lester
Birth Date: 1873
Birthplace:
Age: 23
Spouse's Name: Alice Close
Spouse's Birth Date: 1869
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 27
Event Date: 1896
Event Place: St. Matthew Moorfields, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father's Name: Mark Lester
Spouse's Father's Name: George Close
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M17255-2
System Origin: England-VR
GS Film number: 1595697
Reference ID: 2:1DWD10G

1861

George Close 38 -Westbury, Gloucestershire
Charlott Close 40 - Hallen, Gloucestershire
Ann Close 13
George Close 11
William Close 9
Henry Close 7
Harriet Close 5
Edward Close 2

Yeah Mike I picked this up off Ancestry - I have emailed the original poster to ask if they know anything more. To the outsider - maybe the cynical outsider :-) - it would seem that although she married Thomas Beames he may not have fathered many of the children! Especially as the first male child born between 1891 and 1901 was named George Wilfred Watkins Beames!!!!

Yes Ann that's her.

I think I know everything there is to be known about her..it's her husbands who are the enigma. They must be brothers/half brothers if that 1891 census is to be believed

Eliza Close
England and Wales Census, 1871
birth: 1861 Henbury, Gloucestershire
residence: 1871 Crooks Marsh, Henbury, Gloucestershire, England
parents:George Close, Hester Close

Fanny Close
England, Bristol Parish Registers, 1538-1900
christening: 18 Feb 1866 Henbury, St Mary, Gloucestershire, England
residence: 18 Feb 1866 Gloucestershire, Henbury, St Mary
parents:George Close, Esther

According to some trees

George Close's first wife was Charlotte Waite 1821 – 1864
married 1842

second wife Hester Price 1827 – 1901
married 1864

Name: Minnie M Close
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 4
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: Henbury, Gloucestershire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Clifton
Sub-District: Westbury
Parish: Henbury
County: Gloucestershire

Name: Minnie Maria Close
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 30 Jun 1867
Christening Place: Henbury, Gloucester, England
Father's Name: George Close
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name: Hester
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04041-4
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1595677
Reference ID: item 21 p 116

There is a copy of her marriage cert to George Watkins on ancestry which shows she was a widow and father was George Close deceased

PLEASE GO TO LAST POST

I have a cousin whose father was my father's brother. I have been helping in her research and recently have been delving into her maternal line. Consequently, my knowledge and back-up certification is not vast :-)

Minnie Maria was the half-sister of my cousin's great grandmother Eliza Close. The birth reference was

Name: Minnie Maria Close
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1867
Registration district: Clifton Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a Page: 155

I have a copy of the short-form and actual DOB was 29 May

In 1884, Minnie maria marries Thomas (I think William) Beames

Name: Minnie Maria Close
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1884
Registration district: Barton Regis Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 6a Page Number: 282

And that is the ONLY reference I have to him.

In 1891 census, George and Hester Close - her parents - are living at Wimpenny's Lane - Schedule Number 26. With them are George's son Henry (Eliza's brother and Minnie's half-brother) and a grandson called William Beames aged 7

Schedule 27 reads "1 away from home"

Schedule 28 has head as George Watkins born Henbury 1861 and single
Minnie Beams "sister-in-law" and two children Fanny and Godfrey Beames.

In 1901, George and Hester are at same address with William Beames now aged 16. Schedule 27 is George Watkins, still single, with Minnie - now shown as a boarder with another five children all named Beames.

In 1911, George is living at Blands Row Redwick, still single. Minnie is still a boarder and now she has another four children and a grandchild - all named Beames. By this time she is widowed.

On 24 May 1911, she gave birth to another daughter named Beames.

On 26 July 1912, she married George Watkins......

I THINK Thomas Beames was born Q3 1866 Thornbury.

I can't find a death between 1901 and 1911 that fits him age-wise. There is a death in Cardiff in 1906 with probate granted to a Thomas William Beames which fits with "grandson" William - but professions don't gel either :-(

So what I am asking is - if the 1891 census is to be believed - HOW was Minnie George's sister-in-law? The 1912 marriage certificate has no father which fits with my thinking that George was illegitimate and has his mother's name (I have a census that fits this....) but I cannot for the life of me find a marriage between a female Watkins and a male Beames .

And can anyone come up with a better death for Thomas that fits?

I don't have George Watkins or Thomas Beames - for sure - before the 1884 marriage. I have my ideas but I don't want to influence free-thinking :-D