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it was Georges father William that marrried Fether/Trayhorn

William Knott
1816 –
Sarah Pope
1821 –
Spouse & Children
Margaret Fether
1845 – 1879
Spouse & Children
Jane
1845 –
George Knott born 2 Robert street Lambeth
1864 –
William Knott
1880 –
Jame Knott
1882 –

Thomas Knott
1884 –
Robert Knott
1884 –
Arthur Knott
1887 –

ignore top bit i read it wrongly...George married Fether /trayhorn

and also possibly Eliza Short 1838 –
1881
18 Jul
Age: 35
Bethnal Green St Thomas, Tower Hamlets
Father: John Short, William Knott

I also have a 'Jane that i thought he was married to: born 1845 but i am not sure about that

unfortunatly i tried to amend something yesterday and lost that link...Jaxproctor has it on her ancestry tree

I've been looking at the marriage to Eliza Bullock (nee Short), posted early on by Jan - and it may be relevant - this is her in 1881, widow:

Eliza Bullock
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Paul Shadwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 302 Cable Street
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Beer House Keeper

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Shadwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 461
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Bullock 33
John Short 40
Joseph Turner 48

I can't find her in 1891, but notice the birth place:

Eliza Knott
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Shadwell, London, England

Civil parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St John Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: Widow

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 72
Piece: 218
Folio: 10
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Knott 55

First husband was John Bullock:
John Marshall Bullock
Probate Date: 7 Feb 1881
Death Date: 20 Nov 1880
Death Place: Middlesex, England
Registry: Principal Registry
Admin granted to his widow Eliza Bullock, he was a beer house keeper

Added: died at his pub, The Highlander, Cable Street.

1911
TRAYHORN, William P H Head Married M 27 1864 Glass Blower
St Lukes, London
TRAYHORN, Ellen Wife Married F 27 1864
Kingsland, London
TRAYHORN, Margaret Daughter F 3 1888
Hackney, London
TRAYHORN, Samuel Son M 1 1890
Ponders End, Middlesex
TRAYHORN, William P Son M 6 1885
Stratford, London
Piece: 1087
Folio: 128
Page: 62
Registration District: Edmonton
Civil Parish: Enfield
Municipal Borough:
Address: 20, Nelson Road, Enfield
County: Middlesex

Births Dec 1863 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRAYHORN William Philip James St Luke 1b 658

(son of Philip and Margaret, down as Knott below)

1881
KNOTT, George Head Widower M 37 1844 Glass Blower
Lambeth, Surrey
KNOTT, George Son Single M 15 1866 Scholar
Stepney, Middlesex
KNOTT, William Son Single M 18 1863 Glass Blower
St Lukes, Middlesex
KNOTT, James Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Piece: 307
Folio: 121
Page: 51
Registration District: Hackney
Civil Parish: Hackney
Municipal Borough:
Address: 47, College St, Hackney
County: London, Middlesex

1871
KNOTT, George Head M 26 1845 Hampshire (Glass Blower)
KNOTT, Margeret Wife F 26 1845 London
KNOTT, William Son M 7 1864 London
KNOTT, George Son M 3 1868 London
KNOTT, Emma Daughter F 0 1871 London
Piece: 599
Folio: 61
Page: 1
Registration District: St Saviour Southwark
Civil Parish: St George
Municipal Borough:
Address: Kent St, St George
County: London, Surrey


Deaths Jun 1879 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Knott Margaret 35 Hackney 1b 347

Chris :)

Hello everyone
I have just re found the report the geneologist made for me, it goes round the houses re who Thomas's mother was but here is some info which may be of use to those of you who know what you are doing rather than me who blunders about blindly :) this is the best way i could copy it..it repeats a few bits you have found, that i had forgotten about but as i ran out of funds never actually answered my question of who Thomas mother was, or who indead is Mrs Hogan/Ogan of 35 North street/ Mare street

Introduction
This report is based on family history research into the Knott ancestors of Thomas Knott. Research has been carried out by My Family Tree in February 2011.
Information Sources
Information in this report comes from birth, marriage certificates, census returns as well as parish registers. Copies of all information researched are attached.
In addition
Family information was provided by Cindy Cousins, which provided the starting point for the research. The aim of the research was to trace the Knott line and to find details of Thomas`s life.
Cindy Cousins is the great great grandaughter of Thomas
The Knott Family
The Knott family have been traced back to Lambeth where 3 generations had been born, this report starts with William Knott who married in the year 1836 in Lambeth Surrey, as was many of his children, he was a Glass Blower, grandson Thomas was to change this family line in Glass blowing due to the unfortunate circumstances of his life.
William Knott
At present we have to start with the marriage of William Knott to Sarah Pope, 19th December 1836 at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, Surrey. William was recorded as a bachelor of this parish and Sarah a spinster of the parish. William was able to sign his name whilst Sarah made her mark. Two witnesses at the marriage were a Knott (christian name unreadable) and James Green
William died before 1851 leaving Sarah a widow at the age of 30
William and Sarah had at least 6 children
Thomas born abt 1837
William born abt 1837
George born abt 1843
Harriott born abt 1845
Eliza born abt 1846
Charlotte born abt 1848
In 1851 the family were living at 17 Mitre Place, Lambeth, Surrey
2 of the children had the occupation of Glass Blower, (Thomas and William) Sarah who is recorded as being born in Bishopsgate the City of London, at the age of 30 was now as a widow working as a Charwoman and looking after the family.
George Knott
By 1861 George aged 19 is no longer living with his family but is found living in Gravel Lane, Southwark and now has an occupation, he is a glass blower
In 1866 George marries widow Margaret Trayhorn nee Fether, the marriages took place in West Ham, Essex. Maragaret had one son William and as you will see from later details he becomes George`s stepson
1871 George and Margaret are living at 115 Kent Road, Southwark with children
William, George and Emma
Margaret dies in Hackney during the year 1879 and George becomes a widower.
Children to Margaret and George
George born abt 1866
Emma born abt 1871
James born abt 1872
We find George in 1881 a widow still working as a glass blower and living at 41 College Road, Hackney. He has 3 Children living with him, Stepson William born 1863 and following his step father working as a glass blower then George born 1866 a scholar and James 1874 scholar
We have a gap to fill and that is to find the mother of further children born to George
Children born to George and ?
Jane born abt 1882
Robert born abt 1884
Thomas born abt 1866
Arthur born abt 1887
William born abt 1887 (this requires further research to check if this is a second Willam or a error on census)
1891 although no wife is shown on the census George is recorded as married (possibly wife unwell and in a hospital or workhouse hospital, this still require researching)
1891 George is living in Mile End old town with children, James, William, Jane, Robert, Thomas and Arthur
What happens between 1891 and 1901 requires further research as by 1893 Thomas is entering the workhouse.
Thomas
This part of my report is mostly notes as further research is required. Cindy has been able to supply a good deal of information and I have found a few further documents but I believe there are more to be researched.
1893 and Thomas is first recorded at the workhouse
1895 Thomas at Hackney Workhouse and entering Hackney Training School
1901 sees Thomas recorded at Hackney District Union Training Schools, Brentwood.
1902 Thomas is taken into the care of W A Rogers and moves to Northampton where he is an apprentice Baker
2nd April 1911 and just days before his marriage Thomas is living at 17 Homfray Street Hackney Wick and working as a Baker of Bread he is recorded as living as a lodger at the home of a family named Cook, William Cook aged 32 is a Glass Blower, his wife is Emma born abt 1877, is their some relationship here or possibly a family friendship
16th April 1911 Thomas Married Ethel Franklin, St Gabriel, Chrisp Street, Tower Hamlets
1911 census transcription details for: 17 Homfray St Hackney Wick National Archive Reference: RG14PN1158 RG78PN38 RD11 SD5 ED19 SN186 Reg. District: Hackney Sub District: South East Hackney Parish: St John At Hackney Enum. District: 19 Address: 17 Homfray St Hackney Wick County: London Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COOK, William Head Married M 32 1879 Glass Blower Labour London Homerton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COOK, Emma Wife Married 8 years F 34 1877 London Bethnal Green -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COOK, Emma Elizabeth Daughter Single F 7 1904 London Bethnal Green -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COOK, Francis William Son Single M 4 1907 London Bethnal Green -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COOK, Thomas James Son Single M 1 1910 London Hackney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KNOTT, Thomas Boarder Single M 24 1887 Baker Bread London Hackney --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1851 Census
KNOTT, Sarah Head Widow F 30 1821 Charwoman Bishops Gate Middlesex VIEW KNOTT, Thomas Son M 14 1837 Glass Blower Lambeth Surrey VIEW KNOTT, William Son M 14 1837 Glass Blower Lambeth Surrey VIEW KNOTT, George Son M 7 1844 Scholar Lambeth Surrey VIEW KNOTT, Harriott Daughter F 9 1842 Scholar Lambeth Surrey VIEW KNOTT, Eliza Daughter F 4 1847 Scholar Lambeth Surrey VIEW KNOTT, Charlotte Daughter F 2 1849 Scholar Lambeth Surrey VIEW -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ RG number: HO107 Piece: 1569 Folio: 394 Page: 11 Registration District: Lambeth Sub District: Waterloo Road First Enumeration District: 20 Ecclesiastical Parish: Saint Andrews Civil Parish: Lambeth Municipal Borough: Lambeth Address: 17, Mitre Place, Lambeth County: Surrey
Detail
Findmypast
Documents Attached
1. Banns for the marriage of William and Sarah
2. Thomas Knott inmae Brentwood training school
3. 1861 Census
4. 1871 Census
5. 1881 Census
6. 1891 Census
7. George marries Margaret Trayhorn
8. Margaret and Philip marriage nee Fether 1862
9. Margaret Trayhorn marries George Knott
10. Margaret dies 1879 Hackney
11. Marriage Index George
12. Marriage to Sarah
13. 1851 Census
14. 1861 Census :-) :-)

Do you have the marriage certificate for George Knott and Margaret?

The signature of George Knott at his marriage to Eliza Bullock in 1881, is very distinctive. I wondered if this matched the signature on the marriage to Margaret Tayhorn.

Getting even more puzzling, Margaret Knott dies in 1879. The school admissions posted by Chris are the same family as on the census. Robert & William of the same address in 1888, then Thomas & Jane as well is 1889. Both admission years confirm the same birth dates for each of them, although as was pointed out they can be wrong.

However, the only birth I can see which matches any of the chilren is Jane's:

Births Sep 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knott Jane W.Ham 4a 191

Not sure if this is the right area though.

There's a Jane Knott born 1879-1882 in Walthamstow on the 1891 and 1901 censuses. With a father Thomas. She could be the one whose birth is registered above.

I don't know why George Knott wouldn't register the births for any of his last 4 children. I wonder if he wasn't actually married to their mother, so they were registered under her name.

I'd like to know if the signatures for George Knott on the marriages to Margaret Trayhorn and Eliza Bullock are a match.

I expect Cindy's gone back to sleep for the night now.

I've been thinking the same as you Christina, I think the military record posted by Chris may also be significant - in Jan 1902 Robert is 18 years 6 months, which would confirm the school admission - dob given 3/6/1883.

So, if Jane (26/9/1881) was younger than William, he should have been around on the 1881 census, but wasn't.

His first stepson William Trayhorn was named as Knott on the 1871/81 census - although he married as Trayhorn, and was on 1891 census as Trayhorn, for some reason they were down as Knott in 1901. Is George likely to name another child William??

Wonder if these later children are not actually Knotts, they were all put into school by George, and William/Jane were rather old to suddenly go to school for the first time - so did George only come onto the scene after they were born?? Just throwing out ideas - my thinking is his earlier son James went to school in 1878 when he was 5.

We could do with a check of 35 North Street, Hackney in 1901 if anyone has FMP please, as the 1891 search was negative for Mrs Hogan or Knott.

Don't think it helps but here it is :

1901 Census transcription details for: 35, North Street, Hackney

National Archive Reference:
RG number RG13
Piece: 231
Folio: 103
Page: 69
Reg. District: Hackney
Sub District: South-East Hackney
Parish: Hackney
Enum. District: 15
Ecclesiastical District: South Hackney Christ Church
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 35, North Street, Hackney
County: London
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
EIGHTEEN, Alfred Head Married M 38 1863 Boot Finisher
Haggerston, London
EIGHTEEN, Jane Wife Married F 38 1863 Boot Finisher
Haggerston, London
EIGHTEEN, Rose Daughter F 7 1894
Bethnal Green, London
EIGHTEEN, William Son M 5 1896
Bethnal Green, London
EIGHTEEN, Alice Daughter F 1 1900
Hackney, London
EIGHTEEN, John Son M 0 1901
Hackney, London
STEVENS, William Head Single M 27 1874 Boot Finisher
Haggerston, London
STEVENS, Charles Brother Single M 17 1884 Van Boy
Haggerston, London


Dea x

So, it looks like they were only there in between census, and I don't think there is a way of searching the London ERs by address online - it would need a trip to the RO/Library. Yet another dead end, but thanks for looking Dea.

Marriages Jun 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
KNOTT Robert Bethnal G. 1c 241
WILLIAMSON Elizabeth Eliza Bethnal G. 1c 241

(as on 1911)

Is Death known for George Knott (just wondering!)

Chris :)

1901 (Arthur Knott)
BARTLEY, George Head Married M 30 1871 Nursery Gardener
Chester
BARTLEY, Sarah A Wife Married F 31 1870
Salop
BARTLEY, Lilian E Daughter F 7 1894
Chester
BARTLEY, Ethel E Daughter F 1 1900
Chester
KNOTT, Arthur Boarder M 14 1887 Errand Boy
Hackney, London
SPROSTON, Reginald Boarder M 4 1897
Chester
Piece: 3370
Folio: 101
Page: 19
Registration District: Chester
Civil Parish: Chester
Municipal Borough:
Address: 17, Cecil Street, Chester
County: Cheshire

1891 (Ogan)
DYAN, William H Head Married M 71 1820 Tobacconist
Hackney, London
151 DYAN, Ann Wife Married F 71 1820
Timsbury, London
151 DYAN, Albert G Son Single M 28 1863 Theatrical Manager
Hackney, London
151 DYAN, Clara A Daughter Single F 41 1850
Hackney, London
RG number: RG12
Piece: 191
Folio: 98
Page: 28
Sub District: West Hackney
Enumeration District: 3
Ecclesiastical Parish: St John
Municipal Borough:
Address: 383, Mare Street, Hackney
County: London

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
(on above 1888 - 1895)

(just adding, from looking at above Registers, not sure if connected!)

Chris :)

OM goodness just woke up and you have all been so busy thank you...it is very confusing isnt it, thats why i needed the help and different sets of eyes
Just checking the signatures for George to Margaret and Eliza

..(think i erased the cerificates when i did my ammendment the other day wiping out a whole branch.ill have to check my hard drive)
but....while looking for those i came across this old email from the geniologist.
it just gets me confued but may help those of you who know what you are doing

Hi Cindy, no answers yet but prepare to be confused and then to have questions running around your head, as they are with me, its taken a bit of time to sort out but I feel I know a lot about Eliza Bullock yet I really no nothing of Eliza and no records can fill in the answers to the question raised from below.

Cindy I am not at this stage saying Eliza married George, but must say there is a chance of this.

BUT something really strange may have gone on here, or it may just be the way the records appear.

It appears to me Elizas birth name was Short she married first to a man named Bullock, then too, as you know George Knott and then 5-6 years later, to an older man a widow named John Steptow a Vitualer from Bucks, Living in London.

There is a place that is open and dates would match so it could be possible she married your George and that she had two children Jane and Robert but this will be really difficult to find evidence for. What I feel almost sure of is that she is not the mother of Thomas, but then with what you will see below I could not swear 100%.

I will list all the happenings in date order and in red will add some notes. When you have had time to digest let me know your thoughts.

Also as you know, I looked for a mother that could have recorded her children under her birth name, I did not pick up on Short, as I was looking for groups of four good matches (Jane, Robert, Thomas and Arthur). The group below fits Jane and Robert but Thomas and Arthur in this group do not fit, which is ok there mother could have been another lady.


1851 Age 4 born abt 1847 Shadwell, Essex. Parents John and Elizabeth Short. Fathers Occpation Beer Shop Keeper.

1861 Age 14. Born Shadwell. Parents John and Elizabeth Short. Fathers Occupation Beer Seller. Living 1 Back Road, Shadwell

1871 Census 5 Barnham Street Living with the Bullock family and named Elizabeth Bullock – Daughter – married – Watermans Wife – born Wandsworth. John Bullock the son of George and Ann Bullock recorded as – unmarried – Waterman

Due to the above I checked the 1861 census and although a few small differences the children are a good match for this family but no Elizabeth noted so I have to assume at this stage that Elizabeth not yet married was living with and treated as a Daughter of the Bullocks, prior to the marriage of John the son.

12 Sept 1872 Eliza Bullock married John Bullock both are noted as living Winchester Street, Southwark. Johns Occupation is waterman. Father:- George Marshall Bullock – Waterman. Elizas father John Short Licensed Vitualler.

1881 Age 33. Widow. Shadwell. Her Occupation Beer House Keeper. Living 302 Cable Street, Shadwell

18 Jul 1881. Marries George Knott. Given name Eliza Bullock. Father John Short (publican) Living at time of marriage 24 Chapel Street, Bethnal Green

All ok to here then she marries again and instead of giving her name as either Short or Knott (Knott would have been expected) she gives again the name Bullock, WHY.

What could have happened for her to remarry and also not to use the name Knott.

Assuming she did marry your George

This opens the question of childrens names, did she register Jane and Robert as Short, not wishing to register the children with name Knott and if so WHY. Between 1881 and 1884 she could have had the two children Jane and Robert. I have two children born within these years but registered surname of Short. Workhouse dates of birth for Jane 1881 and Robert 1882, census dates of birth Jane 1882 and Robert 1884.

The question I keep asking is why did Eliza list herself as Widow Bullock and not Widow Knott

1891 George without wife living at the home records himself as married, had Eliza left him and does she not tell him that she remarries, leaving George to believe he has a wife out there somewhere.

18 June 1884 Eliza Bullock age 39 marries John Steptow in Stepney. Both Living Arbour Street. Both widows. His occupation is a beer retailer. Her Father John Short is a Licensed Vitualer who is deceased.

1881 Census John Steptow lived Tottenham, a Beerhouse Keeper born in Bledlow Buckinghamshire

1891 John Stepow is living in Hackney and is recorded as a widow and a Licensed Vitualer. This is just 6 years after his marriage to Eliza

First address on census page is, William Cottage, and John is at no 4. No Eliza recorded

Where is Eliza what name is she now using or has she died, I have not found any record for a death that fits.



Notes

1881 3rd April

Living with George (widow) George, William and James in Hackney

George born Lambeth

George born Stepney

Wlliam born St Lukes

James born Clerkenwell



1891 George (married) Living with George, James, William, Jane, Robert, Thomas, Arthur all born Lambeth. Could Eliza have run off and remarried, without letting George know. Did George later marry again or life with a lady and have children Thomas and Arthur. Or is the George not the same George that we are following?????


Childrens Groups with same mother
This Group was knocked off the list as Thomas was born 1884 and no true Alfred, however looking for a Jane and Carloine born to a mother named Short, the 2 children below would fit the bill.

Short

Jane Caroline Short

1882

Lambeth

Robert Cecil Short

1883

Lambeth

Thomas Short

1884

Lambeth

Thomas Alfred Short

1886

Lambeth

this was on roots chat....interesting
Title: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: Floss 28 on Thursday 09 September 10 21:09 BST (UK)
Hi,

I'm new to this website so please be patient with me should anyone have any info. I even messed up my profile page and cant seem to add any info to that !

I'm interested in James Knott born approx 1873, "St Lukes, London". He is my great-grandfather. I know his father was George but have no idea who his mother was. I have census info for 1881/91, 1901 and 1911, that is assuming I am on the right track. He married a Lizzie Truman in 1899. His father George and he were glassblowers by occupation. I have a couple of ladies who could be his mum - Jane Caney or Margaret Trayhorn nee Fether. I have been chatting to a lady on another website and she appears to be tracing the same family but having probs too ! It seems that if we are looking at the right George for James, he married a couple of times and had quite a few children.

Thanks everyone and I hope to hear from you.......

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 09 September 10 21:17 BST (UK)
Hi Floss

Welcome to Rootschat ;D

I've moved your post to a more appropriate location where the chatters here will do everything they can to help you out.

Dawn
(Co-moderator for London & Middlesex)

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 21:30 BST (UK)
There is a baptism for a JamesJoseph Knott 5/10/1873 at St Pauls Clerkenwell Born 9/9/1873...Happy Birthday
Parents George & Margaret. George is a Glassblower, living 28 Allen Road

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 21:38 BST (UK)
From FreeBMD
Dec 1866
George Knott & Margaret Trayhorn married in West Ham district
Ref 4a page 53

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 21:50 BST (UK)
There are some siblings
Margaret Sarah 9/7/1875 St Lukes Islington Address 27 St Arthur Street Robert 15/9/1872 St Pauls Clerkenwell Born 17/1(?)/1872 28 Allen Road
George 15/9/1872 BORN 14/7/1868

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 09 September 10 21:58 BST (UK)
With that info this looks like them:-

1871 Census

George Knott 26 occ Glass Blower b Winchester Hants
Margaret 26
William 7
George 3
Emma 2 months
All other than George born London

Residing at Kent Street Southwark Surrey
Census ref RG10/599/61/1

Keyboard86


Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 22:01 BST (UK)
Marriage of James Knott of 19 Pearl Street to Lizzie Troman age 19 - a tailoress of looks like 5 Clegg St
23/10/1899 St Peter London Docks Tower Hamlets
Her father Was Benjamin Troman- a Carman




Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 22:16 BST (UK)
I see father George is a widower by 1881
In 1891 he has more children, but no wife present, although his status is married, not a widower

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: snowyw on Thursday 09 September 10 22:26 BST (UK)
Ahha!
One of the new children is Thomas.
Thomas Augustus Knott Bapt 15/12/1885 address 5 Gainsborough Square, St Mary of Eton Hackney Wick
Mother Emma father George - Glassblower
Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 09 September 10 22:40 BST (UK)
1891 census

George 47 Glass manufacturer
James 17
William 11
Jane 9
Robert 7
Thomas 5
Arthur 4

36, St Ann's Road Mile End Old Town
RG12/312/56/24

1861 Census

John Knott 34 occ glass blower b Lambeth
Sarah 41 b Bishopsgate
George 15 b Lambeth
Eliza 14 occ Glass blower b Lambeth
Emma 6 b Southwark
Joseph 14 b Southwark
Lucy 2 b St Luke
John 3 weeks b St Luke

Residing at 7, Sycamore Street St Lukes Finsbury
Census Ref RG09/207/10/25
Keyboard86

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: rjknott on Friday 10 September 10 21:24 BST (UK)
Possibly an elder brother:

1851 HO107/1570
7 James Place, St Mary, Lambeth

James Knott, 38, glass blower
Emma K, 34, wife
James K, 16, son, glass blower
Eliza K, 15, dau, glass blower
William K, 11, son, glass blower
Hannah K, 13, dau
Charlotte K, 9, dau
george K, 7, son
Thomas K, 2, son
Joseph K, 4m, son all b Lambeth

Richard

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: Floss 28 on Friday 10 September 10 21:26 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,

Thank you for that. I do have a certain amount of info but its sooooooo confusing. I've never come across so many Georges born approx 1845 in Lambeth all glassblowers! I will trawl through info sent and see what tallies.

If this reply only goes back to dawnsh, it would be grateful if you can let me know what i've done wrong re this site as I cant seem to navigate my way around !

Wanted to say thanks to Keyboard86, snowyw, and rjknott too!


Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: dawnsh on Friday 10 September 10 21:43 BST (UK)
Hi Floss

You seem to be doing fine, you started a new topic and came back again to see the replies.

Everyone who has contributed to any topic will receive an email notification that there has been a reply. I got mine. Should should have a few in your email inbox too unless you have chosen to switch off your notifications, not something you should do just yet.

They only have to click on the link provided and will then see your thanks, which is also appreciated.

Dawn

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: Floss 28 on Friday 10 September 10 21:58 BST (UK)
Thanks,

I think I need to play with this!

:)

Title: Re: Knotts - East end of London
Post by: rjknott on Thursday 16 September 10 23:09 BST (UK)
I see your problem with two possible Georges in 1871. Apart from the one listed above, there is also George Knott, 27, glassblower, b Lambeth, living in Newington with his wife Jane and son George, 7.

I assume the 1881/91 families are the same. The 1871 George in Southwark has children (William and George) who appear again in 1881 with the right age, but his birthplace in Winchester is bizarre. The Newington George is born in the right place (Lambeth) but his son George is 7 in 1871, and should be 3. My hunch is that the Southwark George is your man and his birthplace is wrong, but you need more evidence.

Going back another generation presents further problems. The George/Jane marriage shows that George is the son of James, the glassblower in the 1851 census. The hope therefore is that the Southwark George is the son of John in the Finsbury 1861 census. I wonder whether John is actually the right name as I can't find any reference to him elsewhere and, in 1877, a Lucy Knott, daughter of James Knott, glassblower, marries, which would just about fit the 2 year-old Lucy in the 1861 census.

I'll search a bit more on another night. All will be revealed!


Richard

MY HEAD IS EXPLODING HAHA......MUST DO SOME HUSEWORK TO CLEAR IT
:-D :-D

This could be Eliza Bullock in 1901

1901 England Census
about Eliza Knott
Name: Eliza Knott
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Shadwell, London, England

Civil parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St John Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Central Hackney
Household schedule number: 72
Piece: 218
Folio: 10
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Eliza Knott - widow - age 55 - cook domestic




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