Find Ancestors

My Nana died on 11/12/1978

I have figured out that she would have been born on 19/07/1909 rather than 1910 as I originally stated.... she married on June 1931 and was 21 then so she definitely was born in 1909.

The Christmas card was only addressed to her 'my darling daughter Edith Ada'

I have tried to find a John Spence around Rotherham in the 1911 Census but there is no trace at all!

To make things even more confusing, I have searched the BMD for any Edith Ada botn in the July, Aug, Sept and there is definataly NO Edith Ada Spence born then, so my conclusion is that she must have been registered under her mothers maidan name - which is possibly Walker (Sheffield).

What was the date for confirmation in the bible please - you just say a number of years later?

If the bible is the only thing linking her to Rotherham, she could have been born anywhere, and your aunt may have got it wrong way round about the train - ie born Swinton and put on a train to rotherham.

This is a strange coincidence, but I don't think it is relevant but just in case:

Marriages Sep 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Houghton Dorothy A Spence Chorlton 8c 1794
Lawson Ada Wallwork Chorlton 8c 1794
Spence John H Houghton Chorlton 8c 1794
Wallwork Harry Lawson Chorlton 8c 1794

I had assumed he was married to someone else.
Her Mother could have told her whatever tale she wanted, and given the name John Spence.
If you have a written Christmas card from John Spence, then he knew where they lived and so kept in contact.
Was the card just to her?

When you say you have "all the records" do you actually have the marriage and death certificates? Assuming so (way too much info for you not to) was her father John Spence shown as living or deceased on the marriage certificate?

Jude

Patchem - you were very clear :-) father John husband James - easily done (especially when they are sometimes interchangeable as well!!!!!)

I'm just thinking that he probably would have been itinerant - probably a jobbing labourer rather than a bricklayer/builder (suggests his own business somewhat!) so needn't be in Rotherham in 1911 or indeed from Rotherham (or Yorkshire even :-S) just needed to be there around 1908. And that is of course IF her mother didn't actually travel to Rotherham for the birth :-|

Sorry for not being clear.
I was looking for him (John Spence) around Rotherham in 1911, possibly born around 1866, but really any age. However nothing positive showing as bricklayer.
I was also looking for a birth in Rotherham for that death.
It was more for elimination than anything else.

Added:
Just re-read your posting and saw the comment about the original poster having 2 different dates of birth between here and ancestry.

Patchem - you do of course mean John Spence!! But is there anything to suggest HE was born in Rotherham?

As a builder/bricklayer - possibly more likely as you say labourer - he would very likely have been quite itinerant. So all we need is a John Spence who was around Rotherham (presumably) late 1908??

Which obviously doesn't help narrow anything down at all!

What county was Rotherham in in 1911?????

Another thought about him...maybe the reason he didn't stay with Edith Ada and her mother was because he was already married??

And finally the Ancestry tree which has dob as 19/07/1909 is the origimal poster's

Jude

Frank Houghton
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Swinton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Swinton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 7 Gower St Pendlebury
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Railway Shunter
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration district: Worsley
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 23575
Household Members: Name Age
Hannah Houghton 61
Frank Houghton 25
Mary Jane Houghton 23
Janes Houghton 2

Although this doesn't help with Edith, I think this may be the right James.

There are several James Spence's as bricklayers in 1911, and as labourers there are many, but not in Rotherham, and not born in about 1866.
One in York born 1879. So a long way away.

Added:
I do mean John, sorry.

Just for info
Births
Spence Edith 1909 Hunslet Yorkshire View
Spence Edith 1909 Halifax Yorkshire View
Spence Edith 1909 Halifax Yorkshire View
Spence Edith 1910 Pontefract Yorkshire View

A tree on Ancestry has Edith born 19/7/1909 Rotheram, husband James Houghton 14/12/1908 died 12/6/1959. There is no documentation to support this, and very little on the tree - but it would indicate the death GB found could be correct. (it has Frank Houghton for James's father)

The person registering Edith's death obviously knew her birth date, but they could have got the year wrong, or the opening poster is a year out.

If that is the death of the correct John Spence, there is no corresponding birth in Rotherham, but lots for Yorkshire in general.
Similarly, not obvious in Rotherham in 1911.
Still looking.

Just to try and rule out.
These were born in Rotherham in the correct quarter:
Births Sep 1910
BROWN Edith A Rotherham 9c 764
HAWLEY Edith A Rotherham 9c 810
One is obvious on the 1911 census, the other could be there, but there are marriages in Rotherham for, probably, both of them.

The death that GlitterBaby found is a year out - do you know when your Nana died?
Thank-you.

John Spence should feature on 1911 census in his noted trade.

Perhaps locating him will offer some clues.....?

Gwyn

If the parents aren't married, the father can only be named on a b.cert if he gives his written permission (usually be accompanying the mother to the registration). In this case, the GRO index will have an entry under each surname (assuming they're different), each pointing to the same b.cert.
If the father doesn't give permission for whatever reason, then the birth will be indexed under the mother's surname.

Marie - I also agree hence why I think something has gone on. Especially given my Nana wouldn't speak about any of her past....

Witnesses are a William A Morris and Ellen Holland

Just thinking about her father sending her a Christmas card using his full name - doesn't sound like something a dad would do if he was with the family .......

No idea if relevant, but there is only one entry for a John Spence in Rotherham:

Deaths Jun 1931 (>99%)
Spence John 65 Rotherham 9c 730

I think the Christmas card is very significant, as it proves that she was not making up this name!

jan

Good thought! I didn't think about that - will try some searches without the surname...