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Births Sep 1884 Siveter Charlotte Beatrice S London C. 1c 9


Name: Charlotte B S Siveter
Spouse Surname: Toner
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1915
Registration district: Holbron
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 1824


Name: Charlotte Beatrice Silvani Siveter
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 30
Spouse Name: Edward John Toner
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Aug 1915
Parish: Myddelton Square St Mark
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Edward Frederick Siveter Occ. Printer
Spouse Father Name: Bernard Toner Occ. Engineer
Register Type: Parish Register


Witnesses David Anderson Barnet and Charlotte Frances Siveter

Could this be Edward Saunders/Siveter's real fathe or other family r?



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Edward Frederick Siveter
Name: Edward Frederick Siveter.....Equestrian
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Mary Ann White
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Aug 1850
Parish: Battersea St Mary
Borough: Wandsworth
Father Name: Thomas Siveter ...... Farmer
Spouse Father Name: William White.....cordwainer
Register Type: Parish Register


witnesses Lucy Ambrose
**** Chapman parish clerk



a child from this marriage?


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Frederick Silvaus Siveter
Name: Frederick Silvaus Siveter
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Aug 1851
Father's Name: Frederick Siveter.... Equestrian
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Siveter
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haggerston St Mary
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about William Nelson Dean Siveter
Name: William Nelson Dean Siveter
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Aug 1855
Father's Name: Frederick Siveter... Equestrian
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Siveter
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers



Edward Frederick or just Frederick in 1851 ?


1851 England Census about Fredk Siviter
Name: Fredk Siviter
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Arraminta White
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Birmg

Civil parish: Shoreditch
Ecclesiastical parish: Haggerstone West
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Haggerstone West
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 114
Piece: 1537
Folio: 127
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
William White 50
Arraminta White 60
Fredk Siviter 30 Equestrian
Mary Ann Siviter 22

1901

Name: Charlotte F Siveter
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoxton, London, England

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington, South-East
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 189
Piece: 189
Folio: 72
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte F Siveter 40 Married, Book Folder
Charlotte B Siveter 16 Book Folder, b. London City

Marriages Dec 1881
NEATE Charlotte Francis London C. 1c 39
SIVETER Edward Frederick S London C. 1c 39



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Edward Frederick Silvain Siveter
Name: Edward Frederick Silvain Siveter....machine printer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Age: 19
Spouse Name: Charlotte Frances Neate
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1881
Parish: St Bartholomew, Moor Lane
Borough: City of London
Father Name: Edward Frederick Sievter..contortionist
Spouse Father Name: William Neate.....artist
Register Type: Parish Register

witnesses
Richard Thomas Rollins
Jane Porter




Edwards address.....109 New kent Road
Charlotte....28Beech St Barbican





England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Charlotte F Siveter
Name: Charlotte F Siveter
Birth Date: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1941
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Hove
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 767

Edward Frederick Saunders aka Sivester? As he was 8 in 1871 he was born before the not found marriage in abt 1871 re 1911 census.

Births Sep 1862
SIVESTER Edward Frederick Wilvani Lambeth 1d 283

Is this Mary's death I wonder.......

Deaths Mar 1912
Saunders Mary F 61 Holborn 1b 722


Does seem to be flexible regarding her age lol

I think that this is Mary with her parents in 1851

Name: Thomas Colbert
[Thomas Calvert]
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Colbert
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Leighton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Stratford St John
Town: Stratford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 10l
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 141
Piece: 1768
Folio: 285
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Colbert 36 Engine Driver
Elizabeth Colbert 43 b. Wiltshire
William Colbert 16 b. Wiltshire
Mary Colbert 8 b. Southampton


1841 - None of them born in County

Name: William Calvert
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St Mary
Hundred: Southampton Town
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 417
Book: 4
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Calvert 30 Labourer
Elizabeth Calvert 30
William Calvert 5

Just been looking for her first marriage - unsuccessfully!

I was wondering if they hadn't married earlier as she was still married to Mr. Siveter?

thanks for looking rootgatherer....I wasn't sure whether or not to "stir" the cooking pot or not. It does appear tobe a family full of secrets??




In the 1871 census, Thomas Calvert born abt 1813 has occupation as " Engineer "just as in the marriage that I asked rootgatherer to check her father is also " engineer"

So if she was 45 when she married would there have been a child in 1897?

Name: John Saunders , Bachelor, Printer, 58 Nelsons Suare
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Age: 52
Spouse Name: Mary Frances Silvani Siveter , Widow, 1 Miner (?) Place, Southwark
Spouse Age: 45
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Sep 1895
Parish: Lambeth St Mary
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William Saunders Stonemason (dec)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Calvert (Engineer, dec.)
Register Type: Parish Register


Witnesess George Whitebread and Annie Rottins(?)



Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burgoyne Robert William Lambeth 1d 710
Freeman Sarah Alice Lambeth 1d 710
Saunders John Lambeth 1d 710
Siveter Mary Frances S Lambeth 1d 710

Rootgather could you look at a marriage on London marriage and Banns and tell me what you think please?

Mary Frances Silvani Siveter (widow) father Thomas Calvert marries John Saunders (Printer) Lambeth St Mary 1895.

The other one born in Brighton is a Plumber!

Something not quite right here. Would a woman born 1843 have a child in 1897?

snap!! Though I do have second thoughts on them being the same man as the 1851 census does have one born 1834 and the other 1836 Brighton. Ah well it was just a thought!

I couldn't find a marriage either Moody Blue. The occupations do seem rather likely. I also though it a bit questionabale that Mary could have a 14 year old son in 1911?

The original post says the Mary was Calvert maiden name Francis. I couldn't find that marriage either. Nor can I find anything for a Leslie Saunders in the USA.

In 1871 the Calverts are his in-laws

This looks rather odd so perhaps someone can disprove it?

Cannot find a marriage for John Saunders to Mary F Calvert.

and this looks too much of a coincidence......................................

Is this the same man with 2 different Marys?


(1 )
1881 England Census about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: Trinity Square No 27
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Occupation: Manager Of Printing Office

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 613
Folio: 40
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
John Saunders 47
Mary Saunders 46
Arthur Saunders 21
Isabel Saunders 17
Clara Saunders 13
Florence Saunders 11

marriage of above?


England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1834
Age: 22
Father's Name: William Saunders
Spouse's Name: Mary Parsons
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: George Parsons
Marriage Date: 5 Mar 1856
Marriage Place: Brighton, Sussex, England


(2 ) the other Mary & John that I cannot find the marriage for

1871 England Census about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
[John Calvert]
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Francis Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Christchurch Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 594
Folio: 58
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
>>>>>>>>>>>>>John Saunders 35 compositor...................printing?
Mary Francis Saunders 27
Edwd Fred Saunders 8
Thomas Calvert 58
Elizth Calvert 64

Well found Moody Blue!

1881 using their 2nd names


1881 England Census about Frederick Saunders
Name: Frederick Saunders
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Saunders
Mother's Name: Frances Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Newington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 47 Heygate St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Printer Machine Minder

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Mary Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 16a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 554
Folio: 86
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
John Saunders 45 b Brighton....Engineer Machine (E & M)
Frances Saunders 36 b Southampton
Frederick Saunders 19 b Lambeth ...Printer Machine Minder

.

The only censu taht I see at the moment is this one

1871

Name: Mary Francis Saunders
[Mary Frances Calvert]
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Saunders
Father's Name: Thomas Calvert
Mother's Name: Elizth Calvert
Gender: Female
Where born: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Christchurch Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 594
Folio: 58
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
John Saunders 35 Compositor, b. Brighton, Sussex
Mary Francis Saunders 27
Edwd Fred Saunders 8 b. London
Thomas Calvert 58
Elizth Calvert 64


Could Leslie actually be her Grandson?