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Thanks for the info ... always good to know these things.

If I buy a b.cert from the English GRO, I get a digital image printed on a special certificate page.
Underneath the image is printed:
"CERTIFIED to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of Births in the District above mentioned"

One can also buy a b.cert from the district that now holds the registrar, and the certification is slightly different, but most local offices lack the ability to transfer a digital image (if they have one) onto their certificate pages.

Anyway, GROI (or whatever they now call themselves) and GRONI both sell "uncertified images" of their BMD certs at reduced rates (as does GROS for older images). For Fermanagh pre-partition, I can buy certs via either:
http://www.groireland.ie
http://www.groni.gov.uk
For GROI, the rate for uncertified images is cheaper still if a ref is given.
This ref can be gotten from some commercial sites, and (thru 1958) via:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347?collectionNameFilter=false

Although, content-wise, there's no difference in the info on certified & uncertified images, the latter aren't acceptable for some legal purposes, like getting a passport, etc.

It just gives Cronien as the address, which also fits.

Yvonne, I think the 1815- 1904 is the correct man-

Is there any address given for him on the death certificate? Does the address tie in with the 1901 census that I posted earlier?

I've just received the two death certificates for the Thomas b. 1815 and Thomas b. 1825. I think I can rule out the Thomas b. 1825 as he is shown as a bachelor. Thomas b. 1815 looks like a very good candidate. He is shown as a widower, which would fit with his wife Isabella's death in 1897. The registrant is shown as John J. Speer, son, and my Thomas had a son, John James b. 1857.

Can anybody see why this could not be the correct Thomas?

I've ordered the death certificates for both the Thomas b. 1815 and Thomas b. 1825. Hopefully the registrant's name will ring a bell and I'll know which is mine, if any.

Wow, Austin, you have been busy. Thank you for this. I'll have to sit down and go through the info you've given me ... wish they didn't give the same names to different generations, it totally confuses me.

Going by names of Thomas children- I'm thinking these are Thomas' younger siblings?:

Church: FERMANAGH, Births recorded in St. Marys Church

Baptized 17/1/1822 Isabella Catherine dau. of Robert Speir and Anne of Lack
Baptized 7/4/1824 Robert son of Robert Spear and Anne of Lack
Baptized 4/9/1826 John James son of Robert Spear and Anne of Lack
Baptized 21/5/1829 Eliza Mary dau. of Robert Spear and Anne of Lack

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=malise&id=I17672

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/churches/lack-baps.htm

(above from google, some Thomas/Mary Thomas/Jane, other Speer also)

Chris :)

(if anything to help!)

I read above re Thomas' first wife being Mary- however, given that Thomas was born c1815, could his first wife been a sister of his second?

Ireland Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds indexes
First name(s) Thomas
Last name Spear
Year 1839
Diocese Clogher
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah
Spouse's last name Breen

I presume this is the other Thomas? (1825- 1903)

Probate:

SPEER Thomas 21st August Probate of the Will of Thomas Speer late of Cronien-bun County Fermanagh Farmer who died 15th November 1903 granted at Dublin to William Speer farmer Effects £69

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014914_00533.pdf

This might the 1815- 1904 man (details seem to fit the information of your Thomas that you gave previously):

1901
Residents of a house 7 in Croneen (Lack, Fermanagh)
Spear Thomas 86 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Farmer Widower
Spear John 43 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Farmer's Son Married
Spear Anne Jane 44 Female Daughter in Law Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Married
------------------------------------

And possibly his wife's death:

First name(s) Isabella
Last name Spier
Age at death 74
Birth year 1823
Registered year 1897
Registered quarter/year Jul - Sep 1897
Registration district Irvinestown
Volume 2
Page 83
County Fermanagh, Tyrone
Country Ireland
---------------------------------------

same family 1911
Residents of a house 1 in Croneen (Lack, Fermanagh)

Speer John 54 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Farmer Married
Speer Anne Jane 55 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Married
Virtue Robert 19 Male Nephew Church of Ireland Co Fermanagh Agricultural Labourer Single

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

dont know

you could give this a ring

they might be able to help you

https://www.fermanaghomagh.com/residential-services/registrations/

Thanks safc ... where can I get a death certificate from and would it help me find his parents?

????

Speer Thomas 1825 1903 1903 Irish Deaths 1864 - 1958 Irvinestown, Fermanagh, Ireland


Speer Thomas 1815 1904 1904 Irish Deaths 1864 - 1958 Irvinestown, Fermanagh, Ireland

I'm adding this query to my previous post back in 2012, for information.

I'm trying to find the death of Thomas Speer, father of Thomas Speer b. 1864. I'm guessing that he was born around 1820. As you can see from the above, he was married three times, his last marriage being in 1876, so his death would be after that. Can anyone suggest how I can find his death.
Thanks.

I'm adding this query to my previous post back in 2012, for information.

I'm trying to find the death of Thomas Speer, father of Thomas Speer b. 1864. I'm guessing that he was born around 1820. As you can see from the above, he was married three times, his last marriage being in 1876, so his death would be after that. Can anyone suggest how I can find his death.
Thanks.

Hi Marie Celeste

The occupation given for Thomas (father) on Thomas (1864) birth cert. is farmer - that is the only certificate I have. In my reply above you will see that the extract from the church register gives his occupation as farmer.

Yvonne

I have the birth certificate for Thomas born 1864 and know for sure that this is my g grandfather. It gives his father as Thomas and mother as Jane Breen. Thomas (1864) died in Liverpool in 1938.

Notes from researcher: Thomas Speer, farmer, of Croneen and Jane Breen of Drumbrick were married in Coolaghty Church of Ireland, parish of Drumkeeran on 2 July 1856; both full-age and widower and spinster respectively; fathers Robert Speer and William Breen, farmers; witnesses not listed.

Thomas Speer, farmer, and Isabella Virtue, both of Croneen, were married in Coolaghty Church of Ireland on 17 January 1876; both full-age and both widowed; fathers Robert Speer and William Marshall, farmers; witnesses Robert Speer and Robert Irvine.

The researcher later came back with the following info from the Colaghty CI baptism registers:
John James born 8 May and baptised 14 Jun 1857
Thomas born 25 May and baptised 10 Jun 1860
(you already have the details of a later Thomas and Isabella Catherine) We also noted several other interesting entries from the registers:
Baptism - (child's name illegible) - born 25 Jan and baptised 25 Feb 1848; parents Thomas and Mary Speer, Croneen, farmer
Confirmation - 16 Jun 1856 Thomas Speer; John Speer (x 2).
As you will recall, Thomas was a widower when he married Jane Breen in 1856 and so it appears likely that he had previously been married to a woman named Mary.
I found the following on an Irish site yesterday:
14 Jun 1857 John James Thomas Speer Jane
10 Jun 1860 Thomas Thomas Speer Jane
1 May 1864 Thomas Thomas Speer Jane
1 Nov 1868 Isabella Catherine Thomas Speer Jane
... so it looks as if Thomas (b 1860) died.

The notes from the researcher are actual extracts from the registers.

Thanks
Yvonne