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Births Mar 1913 (>99%)
Orrell Clara Walmsley Madeley 6a 1062

a journeyman clogger is someone who has served an apprenticeship as a clogger and works for himself. He is not allowed to employ anyone until he has attained the status of master clogger.

if he has served an apprenticeship it seems strange that he can't be found on the 1911 so his marriage certificate would be really useful to check his father's name and occupation

In case you don't know - a clogger makes clogs - i.e - a type of shoe !!

(Not everone comes from Lancashire, Ann, even if we do !! ;-) :-D :-D)

Dea Xxx

It's strange that he should have been a groom in 1900 and a clogger in 1913 ??

He did seem to change his occupation quite frequently didn't he ??

Dea Xxx

accepted the hand-slap Dea - I forget everyone is not as lucky as to come from Lancs :-S

I did do a search on FMP for occupation clogger and 1st name Harold - only 9 out of 40 were not from Lancs, so what was he doing in Shropshire in 1913?

:-D :-D

Educating the 'heathens' ??? :-D

Just cooking tea - will be back later !

Dea Xxx

are you sure you have the right birth certificate Susan. There are these 2 other candidates for a Clara Orrell

Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
Orrell Clara Bolton 8c 431 Scan available - click to view

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Orrell Clara Close Leigh 8c 449

I'd better get tea ready too - before 'strictly' starts

Ann - do you have access to Ancestry - if so, can you take a look at those Army Records please?

The writing is VERY difficult to read and I can't work out if he was at home 'slightly wounded' in 1901 or if he was away. - The dates seem to conflict.

Thanks,

Dea Xxx

This is Clara's birth:


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Clara Orrell
Name: Clara Orrell
Mother's Maiden Name: Walmsley
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1913
Registration district: Madeley
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 1062

Dea Xxx

A journeyman is a tradesman who has completed his apprenticeship. Originally, he was entitled to be paid by the day. Jour is French for day, and is the root of English words like journey - originally, a day's travel; and journal - a daily record book.

A clogger made clogs. In Lancashire, these were wooden soled shoes with leather uppers. The soles were rimmed with iron, supposedly to make them last longer (but really so kids could kick them and make sparks).

put a lot better than I did mgnv

when I first got married there was still a clog-maker in the village

had a quick look Dea but screen not reacting properly so a bit fuzzy but I can make out that he was not discharged until 1916 and was mobilized in Athlone in 1914

I will have another (& better look later)

I used to make BIG sparks with mine mgnv !! ;-) :-D :-D

Nearly set fire to my frock once !

Dea Xxx

opened up laptop with better definition (can also watch strictly at the same time)

looked at military record properly and agree names brothers Thomas & Charles as next of kin so presumably father dead, names wife Annie and date & place of marriage, child Clara born Madeley

discharged as permanently unfit 1914

did the Royal Field Artillery wear clogs???

on all his service record he seems to be described as 'gunner'

sorry Susan - realise now the certificate you have is right

as he was in the army he could well have been abroad in both 1901 & 1911

I can't find where by google but maybe someone else can

Sincere thanks all of you for your help.

You have proven that the Harold I have had for the last few years, is definitely my Gt grandfather. Clara, my grandmother, was born in Salop 7/1/1913 as she often talked about Shrewsbury and I do have her birth certificate. She never spoke about her father or a military career. I don't subscribe to Ancestry, but have free access to it at my local library so will check his records there. I know that Charles and Clara were his parents and that Charles remarried so Hannah is his stepmother.

Thanks also for explaining what a journeyman clogger is. I live in New Zealand and initially guessed it might be something to do with a travelling bricklayer rather than a shoeman!! At least he'll be on the next Census! I'm going to leave this thread open for a bit longer just in case there's any more to add.

Hope you all had a good evening and enjoyed Strictly!!

Regards

Susan

As Clara was only 3 when he was discharged from the army she would probably not remember it herself and many people could not bring themselves to talk of the horrors they experienced in war. 'permanently unfit' on discharge in 1916 (the middle of WW1)

It is definitely your Harold in those military records as it is correct down to the detail of the date of Clara's birth

Sorry for duplicating info re journeyman clogger - I didn't notice the thread had gone onto a second page while I was watching the football. My wife's uncle wore clogs for work until 1970-ish (in Hindley, nr Wigan), but I grew up in clogless areas of the UK. We did however have metal segs you could hammer into leather soled shoes to save wear (and make sparks). Down south, they were known as Blakeys.
http://www.blakeys-segs.co.uk/shop/

Harold was in Ireland with the regiment in 1901
Surname Forename Townland/Street DED County Age Sex
Orrell Harold Ranelagh Athlone Urban (W) Westmeath 23 M

later that year he was posted to India until 1905 then returned home
transferred to army reserve 1906

there is a note that seems to say Hamilton Canada

reengaged aug 1912
mobilised Athlone 7 AUg 1914
dischard unfir 17 aug 1914

Name: Harold Orrell
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Date of Arrival: 13 Jul 1907
Vessel: Lake Erie
Search Ship Database: View the 'Lake Erie' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-491