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Jus an update
I have received the death certificate for little Rose Tapp

Age 10
Died of TB
at Smythen Street,Exeter. it says she is daughter of Mary Ann Tapp
Death was Registered by George Tapp -it says he was present at the death.
He also died of TB -Not sure off had when.

So then there WAS only just Mary Ann and son Francis- but still not certain why she would have changed their names.

possibly more likely to be the one in the militia even though the age is a little out

Just realised that the Francis James in 1881 which is a railway stoker-says he was born at Stoke Canon-which is quite a way out of Exeter-and def not in the centre where Mary Ann seemed to live all the time-so think this respectable one is very unlikely to be mine. :-(

Thanks guys!! I've been to library this morning and searched around but didn't find much.
Really not sure about the One in Swansea-or the one in Knackersknowle! really could be either. Thanks so much for your help. I shall have to delve deeper I think- so difficlut wheh there was a lot of fibbing going on!.

I see that 'Mary' in 1871 -if its Mary Ann Tapp- calling herslef Mary James is a pedlar and so is he 22 years her senior too! Does fit with their lifestyle as by 1881 Susan (Mary Ann's sister) is a hawker and has moved from Smythen Street.

The coincidendce between previously Mary An
.
n Tapp and then Mary james are quite a lot though
Same First name
Birth place-both teignmouth
Roughly same age + or - 5 years.
Both Lived in Smythen Street
Both had a son called Francis.

One disappears-and one appears!
Francis disappears and another Francis appears.

Hmmm. Not sure where I go from here as no BMD's registered to check anything.

Did try genuki police records for 'James' family but didn't find anything that looked like them for definite either.
Will keep searching!

Thanks so much for your help -I do feel I have moved on a bit!


:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

possibly different people. I suspect the children's births were not registered (no penalty in the 1850's) as I can't find a birth reg for sister Rose either

this francis james might be a red herring...
Name: Francis James
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1856
Registration district: St Thomas
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 59

I see there is a birth for a francis tapp in 1856 but the 1861 census says that he is only aged 2. mistake or different people??

this is them in 1881, so debate is whether which frnacis was Francis Tapp!
JAMES, Francis Head Married M 25 1856 Railway Engine Stoker
Stoke Canon, Devon VIEW
JAMES, Eliza J Wife Married F 25 1856
Exeter, Devon VIEW
JAMES, Laura Daughter Single F 2 1879
Exeter, Devon VIEW
JAMES, Francis C Son Single M 0 1881
St Thomas, Devon VIEW

Piece: 2145

Folio: 41

Page: 2

Registration District: St Thomas

Civil Parish: St Thomas the Apostle

Municipal Borough:

Address: New Street, St Thomas The Apostle

County: Devonshire

Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
>>GREENSLADE Eliza Jane Exeter 5b 185
Hansford Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 185
>>James Francis Exeter 5b 185
WAY John Exeter 5b 185

francis james turns up in Swansea in 1891 with wife Eliza

JAMES, Francis Head Married M 35 1856 Engine Driver
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Eliza J Wife Married F 35 1856
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Laura Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Francis Son M 10 1881 Scholar
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Richard Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Emily Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
JAMES, Mary Daughter F 2 1889
Exeter, Devonshire VIEW
SAUNDERS, Charles W Lodger Single M 18 1873 Stoker On G W Ry
Oxford, Oxfordshire



Piece: 4475

Folio: 16

Page: 28

Registration District: Swansea

Civil Parish:

Municipal Borough: Swansea

Address: 24, Wern Pit Road, Clase, Swansea

County: Glamorganshire

it's Ok - I did not take it as a criticism, I looked it up out of curiosity using the newspapers available on Lancs libraries to see if there was anything different which might mention Mary Ann.

In 1871 Mary Ann claims to be the wife of John James.

I could not find a Francis James in 1861 - only the previously found Francis Tapp.

I found one in 1881 - a militia man

I love the name Knackersnowle

Jut found that there is a Francis James in 1881 in St Budeaux, Knackersknowle- I remember one of the other 'Tapps' being sent there after he was in prison-maybe I ought to check that out!!!

Sorry- didn't mean to bite! - just I've been told off today for making people look up things unnecessarily! yes they weren't your most desirable lot! .Thankfully they have improved over time LOL
A few got married-in fact Susan's daughter Bessie
did-and she named her uncle as her Father!

If you get a chance I wondered if Mary Ann said she was married or a widow in 1871? Don't worry if not I'll check when I get to a library at some point :-)

I realised that you had said you had everything on Susan, I was just interested to get a bit of background on the family. They did seem to be a family who happily lied about things and in today's terms would possibly have been called 'the neighbours from hell'. And as for getting actually married................

Of course I could be wrong and they were an exemplary family??????

Just re-read your post about the address of Mary Ann and Francis-that does look very exciting- I will get to my library and trawl images when they are open (!) -hardly ever these days- and see if I can check them out a bit more :-)

Susan had a brief fling with a 'Webber'- and is living next door to a Webber family-so it could have been en error-but its the same address she is living at when charged with the death of the child the same year as Susan Tapp.-and the childrenn are the same age and names too.-
she also lied all the time-But I have many records that clarify it is her in the court case-yes they were her twins- the 2nd died the same year later on-and is registered by susan's brother George.But I have everything on susan -as I have said-so please please don't waste time on her.

I have trawled papers a lot-so think I have everything up to 1868 on susan and Mary ann and george Tapp from there-unless I have missed anything.

I am awaiting the death cert for Rose-to see if it helps.Thanks everybody for your help x

I was in a hurry when I found that (OH wanted tea) so did not look at the image too hard. You are right Astra - they are living in 1 Jews Court, Smythen St - Susan in no 3

Still living in Smythen Street too. Good find LA.

is this Mary Ann's daughter

Deaths Dec 1862 (>99%)
Tapp Rose Exeter 5b 70

???????

1871
there is a Mary Ann James born Teignmouth with a son Francis James (cf Francis Tapp 1861) born Exeter

Susan is to be found in Catherine Street in 1861 but her name is Webber. So why is she Webber on the census in 1861 and Tapp in the newspaper in 1862. What happened in that year?