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Hi Anne,

As you say it is madness, and I personally have no faith or confidence in any of these Pedigree Resource Files, as you will see from my tree I have simply put Mr and Mrs Wotherspoon as the parents of George Wotherspoon, who knows, one day something might turn up.

I will now look to expanding other branches of my tree, and I am going to opt for the Scotlands People marriage details for the wife of Robert Millar/Miller on the basis that Jesse and Janet on the New Zealand records are one and the same person.

Thanks for that explanation of the how names are interchangeable, I will bear that in find on future searches.

Many Thanks and Best Wishes,

James

Hi James,
There are a number of Scottish names that are iterchangeable.
Janet and Jessie are among the the most common. Irrespective of whatever name was given at baptism, a woman often used both terms

The other ones to be aware of are:
Jane/Jean and Jeanie.
Peter and Patrick.
Isabel/ Isabella and Bella
Christian and Christina
Grissell/Grizel and Grace.

As to ever finding the parents of George Wotherspoon, I also gave up reseaching my own Lanarkshire families in a similar time period.
Records are scant.I found plenty of possibles, just as many impossibles and nothing definitive.
I no longer chase ancestors.... only ante-descendants!
I shared my reseach with various other ante descendants and sure enough they have managed to add masses of ancestry to it.... ALL the impossible ones!
I get slightly miffed every time I see these trees because I am quite sure that my farthest ancestors were either unbaptised or the records will be lost, but some people just cannot accept it and are determined to identify parents without sources or proof.
It's madness!

Anne

Researching these Wotherspoons just gets crazier and crazier, I was looking at a marriage of Janet Wotherspoon to a Peter Millar/Miller on 20 September 1867 in Kilbirnie in Ayrshire.

FamilySearch.org says he married Jessie who is Janet's sister and this is confirmed on Scotlands people. I t was suggested that they emigrated to New Zealand almost immediately after their marriage.

So I ran a check on FamilySearch for any children born in New Zealand and there are several children, problem is they are all showing as the children of Peter Millar/Miller and Janet Wotherspoon not Jessie Wotherspoon, admittedly these are all shown on Pedigree Resource Files.

Would it be safe to assume that Janet is an error and that the mother should be Jessie?

James

Why did there have to be so many Wotherspoons in Lanarkshire :-(

I have done a search on Scotlands People for Surname: "WOTHERSPOON"; Surname Option: Exact; Forename: "GEORGE"; Forename Option: Prefix; Sex: "Any"; Date From: 01 January 1750; Date To: 31 December 1765; County: LANARK; Parish: OLD MONKLAND and this came up with this George Wotherspoon, so far I have not found out anything more about him:-

14/12/1755 WOTHERSPOON GEORGE - JOHN WOTHERSPOON/ M OLD MONKLAND OR COATBRIDGE /LANARK 652/00 0010 0078

Hi James,
This is simple, but quite difficult to explain.
There are NO birth records pre 1855, only baptisms.
Birth dates are often put on the BAPTISMAL record.

Therefore, a child COULD NOT be baptised without a name!
I believe the record that you posted is an INFANT DEATH.
The death of male child who died BEFORE being baptised

These unnamed births appear on Family Search when a transcriber finds an infant death on a mortcloth record. They then produce a birth for an unamed male/female child, using the date his/her death was entered onto the mortcloth.
These records give neither the actual birth or death date.

The first time I found one of these on Family Search, I found BOTH the birth and the death were also on SP, and I ordered both records .. only to discover that I had just purchased two copies of the SAME Mortcloth entry.

Hi Anne,

I take your point about a parameter of just 4yrs for his birth, I am exploring various options in respect of his birth and father.

Due to the amount of misleading and conflicting information I have come across on FamilySearch and other sites, as yet I have not committed myself to anything definite.

What I have come across is a birth of a son in 1731 to a John Wotherspoon, and that child could possibly be the father of my George Wotherspoon, unfortunately no christian name is given, so I will look further into that tomorrow.

Wotherspoon

Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

christening: 08 Feb 1731 ,? OLD MONKLAND,? LANARK,? SCOTLAND
residence: Old Monkland,? Lanarkshire,? Scotland
parents: John Wotherspoon
name: Wotherspoon
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 08 Feb 1731
baptism/christening place: , OLD MONKLAND, LANARK, SCOTLAND
father's name: John Wotherspoon
indexing project (batch) number: C11652-2
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number

Thanks again for your help, I am going to call it a day for now as my eyes are starting to play up so need to rest them.

Best Wished,

James

Hi James,
I see what you are trying to do but, you cannot be 100% certain that George was born between 1758 and 1761.
All we know is that he married in 1782 and had children over a 24yr period.
I would accept that Christian Burnett would be born early 1860's but how can you be sure about her husband's age?
You have given a parameter of just 4yrs for his birth I would tread carefully on that one.
Anne

On the subject of age....
Last week I obtained a marriage cert for the sister of my g grandfather. She was 21yrs old at the time. Her husband said he was 48yrs old but he was actually 56yrs old!

Hi Anne,

No easy task, in my search for possible fathers in the Old Monkland area I came up with this list to flook into:-

Surname: "Wotherspoon"; Surname Option: Exact; Forename: ""; Forename Option: Prefix; Sex: "Male"; Date From: 01 January 1720; Date To: 31 December 1740; County: LANARK; Parish: OLD MONKLAND


D.O.B. CHILD FATHER

1 08/02/1731 WOTHERSPOON JOHN ??? WOTHERSPOON
2 17/06/1733 WOTHERSPOON ABRAHAM JAMES WOTHERSPOON
3 08/04/1733 WOTHERSPOON DAVID JOHN WOTHERSPOON
4 04/05/1729 WOTHERSPOON GAVIN GAVIN WOTHERSPOON
5 28/09/1729 WOTHERSPOON GAVIN JOHN WOTHERSPOON
6 06/07/1740 WOTHERSPOON GAVIN PATRICK WOTHERSPOON
7 23/02/1729 WOTHERSPOON GEORG JOHN WOTHERSPOON
8 17/08/1735 WOTHERSPOON GEORGE GEORGE WOTHERSPOON
9 03/06/1733 WOTHERSPOON JAMES JAMES WOTHERSPOON
10 25/11/1736 WOTHERSPOON JAMES JAMES WOTHERSPOON
11 26/10/1726 WOTHERSPOON JOHN JOHN WOTHERSPOON
12 18/04/1731 WOTHERSPOON JOHN GAVIN WOTHERSPOON
13 25/09/1726 WOTHERSPOON PATRICK JAMES WOTHERSPOON
14 29/12/1726 WOTHERSPOON ROBERT JOHN WOTHERSPOON
15 06/04/1729 WOTHERSPOON ROBERT GEORGE WOTHERSPOON
16 15/11/1730 WOTHERSPOON ROBERT JAMES WOTHERSPOON
17 17/09/1738 WOTHERSPOON WILLIAM JAMES
WOTHERSPOON

James

Hello Anne,

Thanks for that, I think I follow what you are saying, however, according to Scotlands People there were only two George Wotherspoons born between 1758 and 1761 and they were:-

1) 03/06/1759 WOTHERSPOON GEORGE ROBERT WOTHERSPOON/ M OLD MONKLAND OR COATBRIDGE /LANARK 652/00 0010 0082

2) 22/08/1760 WOTHERSPOON GEORGE JAMES WOTHERSPOON/HELEN WOTHERSPOON FR432 CHILD 5 (FR432) M BARONY GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK

Out of those two I think the most likely would be Robert, so at the moment I am looking further into that as well as looking at these two John Wotherspoons from the Old Monkland district:-:

26/10/1726 WOTHERSPOON JOHN FATHER JOHN WOTHERSPOON

18/04/1731 WOTHERSPOON JOHN FATHER GAVIN WOTHERSPOON

Thanks Again,

James

This para is copied and pasted for reference:
"That brings me back to my earlier post where I said my George Wotherspoon married to Christian Burnett was the son of Robert Wotherspoon. To me it appears that may not now be the case and who George Wotherspoon's father was is a question for another day as he could be a son of any of several Wotherspoons who lived in the Old Monkland and Lanarkshire district in the early 1700's"

I look at family history in a methodical way:

At present we are both in agreement that your line definitely stems from George Wotherspoon and Christian Burnett.

Look firstly at their marriage date for George and Christian. I also searched and found this to be 1782.
Only births for their 3 youngest children appear on SP, but we have already found evidence that John Wotherspoon bc 1783 ( married Janet Spittal) will be their son.

Based on the marriage for George and Christian, together with the approx birth year of son John, UNLESS WE CAN PROVE OTHERWISE, I would guess that John is the eldest son in this family.
The 1st son in a family was almost always named for his paternal grandfather.
This means that George Wotherspoon ( husband of Christian Burnett) would have a father named.... JOHN Wotherspoon.

How to determine?
Look at all the other men that youy think are siblings to George.
If you can, establish marriages and pay particular attention to the name given to their 1st born sons.

Possible birth for George?????
Unfortunately, most birth records prior to this have only a father's name. The mother's name is not given.
There are dozens of Old Monkland births over a 50yr period where a father is listed simply as John Wotherspoon.
It would be impossible to separate them into individual families as many of these births were registered in the same year.

parents: John Wotherspoon
name: George Wotherspoon
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 14 Dec 1755
baptism/christening place: , OLD MONKLAND, LANARK, SCOTLAND
father's name: John Wotherspoon
indexing project (batch) number: C11652-2
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1066602

Anne

Hello Anne,

I also had a look on Scotlands People and I also could only find the 1798 marriage for John Wotherspoon married to Christian McLearan, and that has to be the one I accept.

You may recall that when I started on tracing my Wotherspoon connections I was looking for information on a a George Wotherspoon born abt 1700 and his son a Robert Wotherspoon born about 1734 who had allegedly married a Christian McLearan in 1775.

I am convinced that this is a perfect example of inaccurate information being submitted by someone who has not correctly researched it, and I am sure that there must be many who have gone off on a tangent and ended up following the wrong path.

If we take the Robert Wotherspoon born about 1734 connection out of the equation things begin to make a lot more sense and bits and pieces of the jigsaw start to fall into place.

That brings me back to my earlier post where I said my George Wotherspoon married to Christian Burnett was the son of Robert Wotherspoon. To me it appears that may not now be the case and who George Wotherspoon's father was is a question for another day as he could be a son of any of several Wotherspoons who lived in the Old Monkland and Lanarkshire district in the early 1700's.

I now believe that George Wotherspoon born abt 1759 was one of several brothers one of whom was John Wotherspoon b1764, and that John Wotherspoon married a Christian Mclearan on 15 Sep 1798, he was the father of George Wotherspoon b1801 who married a Jennet/Jannet/Janet Robertson in 1838.

I should very much appreciate your thoughts on my current line of thoughts.

Regards,

James

Hi James,
Re the confusion relating to the marriage of John Wotherspoon and Christian McLearan...
I put these names into a SP search (OPR marriage Banns)
There is only one marriage match, which is 1798 Old Monkland

I have never got to grips with the new family search, but someone on this site may be able to explain how to differenciate between a Submitted Entry and Extracted Entry.

The old version called Scots Origins was a much easier and user friendly site.

Submitted means that someone manually provided family search with the information. ( unsourced and often inaccurate)
An extracted entry comes directly from the OPR which has been transcribed by the LDS . These too, can and do.. contain human errors

Anne

Hello Anne,

Thanks for the confirmation of George Wotherspoon Born 14 Jan 1808 in Old Monkland as the son of John Wotherspoon and Janet Spitall, I have to admit that establishing this gave me some problems initially.

Just wish I have as much success sorting out the John Wotherspoon b1764 issues :-(

Regards,

James

Hi Gins,

This tree is not mine:-

John WOTHERSPOON
1783 – 1840
Janet SPITTAL
1778 – 1850
Show siblings Hide siblings Spouse & ChildrenAlexander GARDNER
1806 –
Janet GARDNER

Regards,

James

These are the records that made me say that John Wotherspoon's marriage to Christian Mclearan may be questionable as she is shown on a Family Search.org Pedigree Resource File as being married to his father Robert Wotherspoon, in my wildest dreams I cannot believe his wife and mother had the same names.

Family Search.org Pedigree Resource File:-

gender: Male
birth: 1734
of Craighead,Lanarks.,Scotland
AFN: 3C33-L9J
Parents
father: George Wotherspoon (AFN: 3C41-D5H )
mother: Mrs Wotherspoon (AFN: 3C41-H00 )
Marriages (1)
spouse: Christian MC LEARAN (AFN: 3C33-Q1K )
marriage: 1775
of Wanflit,Old Monk,Lanark,Scotland

and yhen there is this:-

Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910 Records:-

spouse: John Wotherspoon
groom's name: John Wotherspoon
bride's name: Christian Mclearan
marriage date: 15 Sep 1798
marriage place: , Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11652-2
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1066602, 0102961

No wonder I get confused :-(

Hello Anne and Gins,

I think I am might be getting somewhere, does this make sense, my George Wotherspoon married to Christian Burnett was the son of Robert Wotherspoon.

That George Wotherspoon had a brother John Wotherspoon b1764 and that John Wotherspoon married a Christian Mclearan on 15 Sep 1798, he was the father of George Wotherspoon b1801 who married a Jennet/Jannet/Janet Robertson in 1838, or maybe I have lost the plot again.

However his marriage to Christian Mclearan may be questionable as she is shown on a Family Search.org Ancestral File as being married to his father Robert Wotherspoon :-(

James

No wonder I couldnt find Janet in 1841!!


1841 Scotland Census
about George Wothespon
Name: George Wothespon
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Old Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: New Maryston
Occupation: Boatman
Parish Number: 652
Household Members: Name Age
George Wothespon 40
Jannett Wothespon 40

Children of John Wotherspoon and Janet Spittal

Isobell b 25 Nov 1804. Old Monkland
Christian b 23 Feb 1806 Barony
GEORGE b 14 Jan 1808 Old Monkland (missing from your tree)
James b 15 Aug 1809 Glasgow
John b 14 Jul 1811 Old Monkland
Janet b 28 Nov 1819 Old Monkland
Elizabeth b 18 Apr 1821 Old Monkland

The naming pattern is perfect for the father of these children to be the son of George Wotherspoon and Christian Burnett

Anne

I wonder if this is the same George from the 1851 that Prickles posted?

Same address


1841 Scotland Census
about George Wotherspon
Name: George Wotherspon
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Gender: Male
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Old Monkland
County: Lanarkshire
Address: West Maryston
Parish Number: 652
Household Members: Name Age
Robt Wotherspon 30 Boatman
Martha Wotherspon 20
George Wotherspon 2
Martha Wotherspon 7 Mo
Edward Docherty 20 Boatman


Edit: no its not the same one as this guy appears on the 1851 census :-(

Hi James,
I take it back.....
John Wotherspoon and Janet Spitall DID have a son called George!
Born 14 Jan 1808 in Old Monkland.

He was most likely the eldest son..... you are back on track as his father John Wotherspoon will be the son of George Wotherspoon and Christian Burnett

Anne