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Flip thanks. Will see what the death certificate comes back with in terms of identifying him as my Charles David or not and take it from there.

Choccy - good one. Fair legacy for that time!

Jude

Just wondering about his circumstances - he went from being a licenced vitcheller (no idea how to spellthat!) "own account" in 1901 to being a barman "worker" in 1911. Wonder if he went bust during the period - I've only got access to 19c newspapers, but someone else may be able to look for a bancruptcy

Added, another thought - their address in 1901 was a pub at 6 Tredegar Street - wonder if someone could do an address seach in 1911?

Edit: No scrub the address search, I found the family from 5 Tredegar Street, living next door to the pub, it's now listed as the White Hart. The family living there are not connected, they are an Irish couple John & Helena Lucy.

I suspect the licensed victualler thing is semantics.

My great great grandfather Thomas was a farmer. At some point in the 1860's/70's he appears to have sold the farm and bought the Crwys Hotel in Cardiff. When he died in 1877 he left about £800 which was a sizeable amount. This would probably have been divided between his eight surviving children. Lewis, a blacksmith originally and up until 1881 census, became a licensed victualler in 1891 census. When he died in 1897 he left just under £1200 and when Maria eventually died in 1922 she left £9722.

I suspect that Maria held the purse strings quite tightly! I think that the house he lived in in 1911 (which was two doors from my grandparents) belonged to my grandfather.

But he certainly seems a bit of a black sheep!

Jude

Yes, but he was his own boss, so to speak, and must have been running the pub and employing the barmaid and possibly the servant. The pub obviously changed hands sometime between 1901 & 1911 and he ends up staying with his mother on 1911 census (she is recorded as the householder even though she is absent and staying with her daughter).

It would be good to know who was living with Charles at the 1926 address, but without someone local it's impossible to check! Tried the phone books but nothing obvious.

I think I've found your Mabel Edith / Edith Mabel......



1911 England Census
Name: Mabel Editts Jurrius .......Mabel Edith Jenkins
Age in 1911: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil parish: Bury
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Henry St Bury Lanc
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Bury
Registration District Number: 462
Sub-registration district: South Bury
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Piece: 23513
Household Members: Name Age
Mervyn Hlbert Jurrius 35 .......Mervyn Albert Jenkins.....Dental Mechanic (Artificial Teeth) working at home.....Bassaleg, Monmouthshire
Mabel Editts Jurrius 34
Edna Jurrius 3 .....Edna Jenkins....Bury, Lancashire.
Mabel Jurrius 10/12 .....Mabel Jenkins.....Bury, Lancashire.


They say they have been married for 10 years, 2 children born to this marriage. Yet the age of the children possibly suggests that they have been together for a much shorter time than that?


There is no marriage showing for this couple.


But there is this birth....

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Vera R Jenkins
Mother's Maiden Name: Mathias
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1912
Registration district: Bury
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 1062

OMG, I think you may be onto something Christina - well found!!! So she may have run away with her dentist - or Charles ditched her for a newer model anyway! Have you had a look for a marriage 1926 onwads after the possible death of Charles?

Had a quick look, but can't see anything for them after that date.

Can't see any deaths in the Lancashire area either, unless they moved back to Wales after the death of Charles?

Noo, I can't see a marriage either, but think this may be his birth:

Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jenkins Mervyn Albert Newport M. 11a 205

And on the census:

Mervyn Jenkins
Age in 1901: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Bassaleg, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Graig
Ecclesiastical parish: Bassaleg
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Newport (Monmouthshire)
Sub-registration district: Rogerstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 66
Piece: 4963
Folio: 99
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Mervyn Jenkins 24
Mabel Jenkins 17 << his sister
Alice J Lewis 16

Oh Christina - that looks good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In 1901 he was an insurance agent!

I just knew that the switching between Edith Mabel and Mabel Edith was going to be key!

Have you tried to find any of the family post-1911, I can't see anything for any of them - no deaths, marriages etc so wonder if they emigrated?

However, there's a possible marriage for Vera R Jenkins in 1947 to John Taylor in Preston, and a death reg Preston for Vera Rose Taylor, in July 2001 - gives dob of 18/7/2012 which could match the birth posted earlier.

Let us know how you get on with the death certificate for Charles

I only looked for deaths for Mabel/Edith and Mervyn. Children were my next challenge. Tenuous death in 1958 for her in Stockport but nothing for a Mervyn.

Hoping to get certs on Friday!

Jude

Well - infuriatingly as normal - one of the two certificates ordered at the same time has arrived...without the other one :-S

Anyway it's the death certificate...and it is him. The informant was my grandfather. Charles died at 45 Wellington Road Bridgwater on 02 May 1926 aged 47. A combination of rheumatoid arthritis and flu!

His occupation is retired licensed victualler. The White Hart btw is still there but no longer a pub. It was famous in its day as it was on the site of the cattle market and used to open at six in the morning!

So, I wonder who Eva from the probate record was? A bt of luck your grandfather registering the death - otherwise you couldn't have been sure it was the right one!

Yes! I am going to send for the will - watch this space!

And so today the marriage certificate arrived...

and very illuminating it is!

It is certainly him - father is Lewis, my great-grandfather (Lewis John it seems - something new but as he was born before 1837 I don't have a birth certificate) and her father is William which fits with my research (as her being the Newport birth not the Bedwelty birth). Witnesses were William Llewellyn - his brother- and B. Matthias which I assume was her sister Beatrice.

The interesting thing is his address was The Elms, Corporation Road Newport - which was where his mother, my grandfather and his sister were living in 1901 census.

They married in Bristol and Edith Mabel's address was 78 Islington Road Bristol. She was in Newport in 1891. So can anyone find who was living at that address in 1891 and 1901 - whether it has any relevance/bearing I do not know!

I will be sending for the will...but I went to do it yesterday and my cheque book had run out!!!!!!!!! New one applied for but as they ONLY accept cheques :-(

Jude

I can't do an address search - you need someone with FMP sub, I tried looking for her in 1891 but didn't have any luck I'm afraid. Did she marry as Edith Mabel or Mabel Edith?

78 Islington road is a 2 bed terraced according to Zoopla, I had wondered if it was a boarding house/hotel and she may have been a servant - but doesn't look like it. Try changing your title to include "1891 address search" & someone may be able to help more.

Looked at FMP, and can't see an Islington Road in Bristol in 1891, but it is there in 1901 - although 78 isn't registered. So maybe a 1891 mistranscript? I can't view details without a sub.

Flip - thanks. Have altered the title.

She married as Edith Mabel. Sent for his will today.

Anyone new!!!!!! Charles David Llewellyn and Edith Mabel Matthias married in Bristol - Edith Mabel's address was 78 Islington Road Bristol. She was in Newport in 1891 and subsequently in 1901.

So can anyone find who was living at that address in 1891 and 1901 - whether it has any relevance/bearing I do not know!

Thanks

jude

Hi Jude,

Have checked both years but no Number 78 is listed so maybe the road was renamed or the numbers were.

I am happy to help more if I can but there is nothing under Somerset and Islington.
Sorry it's not the news you wanted.

Kind regards
Amanda

Thanks - I think it also says Southville and there's definitely a number 78 now (as Flip says)

Jude