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That's terrific - thank you K! Definitely the right people, I do appreciate the help - I'm getting so frustrated at not being able to look things up for myself - I think I'll just send GR a cheque and be done with it!

1891? i think this confirms it is the right family - Jane listed as a widow on the image and the surname on the image could well be Wiltshire (wrongly transcribed by Anc) Edit - a tree on Anc lists the wife's maiden name as Rose

Name: Joh Scott
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Part N K, Scotland

Civil parish: Heston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Hounslow
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1025
Folio: 38
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Joh Scott 65
Jane Scott 64
Jane Scott 24 actually looks like Wiltshire on the image
Cecil Scott 21

Slightly better from FMP

SCOTT, John Head Married M 65 1826 Tailor
Scotland
SCOTT, Jane Wife Married F 64 1827
East Indies
WHITTSHAM, Jane Daughter WidoW F 24 1867
Chelsea, London
SCOTT, Cecil Son Single M 21 1870 Private Infantry
Hounslow, Middlesex

Piece: 1025

Folio: 38

Page: 20

Registration District: Brentford

Civil Parish: Heston

Municipal Borough:

Address: 4, Lidgolds Cottages, George The 4th Road, Heston, Hounslow

County: Middlesex

1881 ? But this time all the family are born in the UK

Name: John Scott
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Berwick, Wiltshire, (the image just says Berwick)

Civil parish: Heston
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: Military Road 6 Tivoli Cottes
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Tailor

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1340
Folio: 13
Page Number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
John Scott 52
Jane Scott 51
William Scott 21
George Scott 18
Cecil Scott 11

1871? Mother Jane is listed as a tailoress and married

Name: Jane Scott
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Jane Scott
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Heston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Hounslow
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 113
Piece: 1314
Folio: 45
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Scott 43 born Ceylon
Edward Scott 18 born Guernesey
James Scott 16
Richard Scott 12
George Scott 8
Jane Scott 7
Cyril Scott 1

To update now I have the certs:
Jane Scott married Frank Wiltshire in 1887
Frank died in 1890
Lillie Jane was born in 1892
Jane Wiltshire married John Fursey in 1893.
John Fursey died in 1890
Jane Fursey married Thomas Neller in 1918

Could not have achieved this without your help - many thanks.

I wonder if I could ask one more favour? I am still having a problem with payment to GR and Find My Past - my computer is blocking me with strange error messages, so I can't look up the censuses. I need to find Jane Scott (c 1865) with her father John Scott, a tailor in or around the Hounslow area in 1871.

I didn't know about the practice of using the dead father's name - that's really interesting, and I think it solves another mystery elsewhere in my tree - thank you!

As Lillie would have been only 6 months old when her mother remarried, it would be only natural for her to be Fursey and not Wiltshire. She would have been astonished, I think, to know how much time and attention has been paid to finding out who she really was!

I'd like to thank everyone for their efforts and interest in helping me with this.

Christine

if a baby is born to a married woman, her husband is always assumed to be the father, and his name put as such on the birth certificate ............ even if he has been dead for a long time.

The longest time I have seen was a baby born 10 years after the husband died!


The only exceptions would be if the birth father agreed to have his name on the certificate, and attended the registration. OR if the mother basically said she was single.


It could well be that John Fursey was the father ............... or it could be someone else.

What often happened after a widow with children remarried was that her children began to use the step-father's name ................. there was no official adoption in those days, so you will not find any documentation.




sylvia

I now have both the certificates, and I'm sure I have found her, although they do raise a question or two.

Lillie Jane Wiltshire was born 7th September 1892 (the same birthday as the family had for her). Mother Jane Wiltshire, formerly Scott. Father Frank Wiltshire.

Jane Wiltshire, widow was then married to John Furzey, widower on 21st April 1893.
What is intriguing about that is the death that Rambling Rose found, for a Susan Fursey in the March quarter of 1893. I'm not sure I can afford any more certificates just yet, but I would love to know who the informant was, and what she died from!

I have now found a marriage for Jane Scott and Frank Wiltshire in the June quarter of 1887, and a death for Frank Wiltshire in June 1890. The problem with this as far as Lillie Jane is concerned, is that it's two years before she was born and he is shown as the father!

My imagination is working overtime - was she John Furzey's child and he has married Jane at the first opportunity after his possible wife's death?

Will do, thank you. If they prove I have found the right one, I shall shout it from the rooftops!

It sounds very good to me too Christine.

A good way to go about it.

Please let us know when you get the certs.

Mel

Looks good to me Christine.

Maryb.

I have come back to this with, I think, a clearer mind. Assuming that Jane's maiden name was not Fursey and Lillie may have been born to Jane before she possibIy, met or married Mr Fursey, I decided to search for a birth for Lillie (with no surname) in the right area at around the right time. There were only two results, both in the December quarter of 1892. One was Lillie Rowland, the other was Lillie Jane Wiltshire.

I then searched for a marriage for a Jane Wiltshire after 1892, and found a marriage in Brentford in the June quarter of 1893. On the same page is a John Furzey!

When I was searching for Furseys in the area generally, I found a death for a John Fursey in 1900 in Brentford.

1892 - birth of Lillie Jane Wiltshire
1893 - marriage of Jane Wiltshire and (hopefully) John Fursey/Furzey
1900 - death of John Fursey
that would mean that she was widow when she met up with Thomas Neller, so why they didn't marry until 1918 is anybody's guess. Unless of course, Thomas Neller had an unsuccessful marriage at some point.

I have sent for the birth and marriage certificates, although they may not prove positively that these are the right people. If they married in 1893 and he died in 1900, they aren't going to show together on any census. Can anyone see any flaws in my thinking?

Am going to be away for a few days. Will give this another effort when I get back. Thank you all for your help and interest - much appreciated!

These Furseys seem very elusive. The only ones in the right area are in Sunbury/Staines (very nearby) in 1841 - nothing at around the right time, and these births and deaths surely mean that they must be there somewhere - so why don't they show up? I have looked closely at the St Pancras Fursses, but can't tie anything up with them, so have more or less discounted them. Even those as far away as Somerset and Devon don't tie up.

sorry just had a mad moment and posted the marriage you already have :-S it was just that I saw a name on the list of spouses that is 'one of mine' :-D

I also found a death record for Susan Fursey in Brentford in 1893 - I assumed that was the one that Rambling Rose found. There must be some connection, if I can only find what it is!

Don't know if this is of any relevance?

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980
Name: Susan Fursey
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1892
Burial Date: 7 Jan 1892
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Parish or Poor Law Union: Heston
Borough: Hounslow
Register Type: Parish Register

Lived Wellington Road

That is an interesting one. Especially as Lillie's grand-daughter was named Susan.
It shows that there were Furseys in the area at around the right time - although they are certainly proving elusive! Nice to have something new to look for. Thank you.

Throwing this into the mix because I came across it whilst looking, it's the same area so I wondered if tracking her down might lead somewhere as it's a fairly unusual name?

Deaths Mar 1893 (>99%)

Fursey Susan 29 Brentford 3a 37

Me too.

I have to go out today (shopping) yuck..........................