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Just on the remotest off-chance ....

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Charles Culliford
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1892
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 274

EDIT: No

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
Name: Charles Culliford
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1892
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Islington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 190

hiya
sorry been of line yes i did get the second name from another newspaper
those childrens name coincide with dates
so i will send for cert of one and pray thank you all very much as this has been a puzzle for so long
will let you all know if it was the right family .

Do come back and let us know what you find Patricia.

No trace of an inquest on national archives either, wonder if there is one at the local archives?

Also, wonder who registeed Charles's death (and the children's) - they would only go on what they knew (or thought they did). And they hadn't lived in Doncaster for long. Does look strange for 1 newspaper report to confilict with the others - though never believe what you read in a newspaper!

Glad you're going to get one of the birth certs, don't think we'll get any further without some confirmation of their parentage, although I'm pretty sure they are the children - there's absolutly nothing recorded for any of them other than their births.

hi all
i have looked up the children with culliford name and they all have mmn as mundy .
and where they were all born starts in nottingham worksop and doncaster
So whoever registered there deaths must have thought last name was taylor.

but will know more when i get a cert of 2
will keep you updated

Patricia, do let us know on this thread what the outcome is when you receive the cert. This is one of those queries that draws you in!

I was wondering about Charles' middle name, could it be something that begins with C but sounds a bit like Trevor? Just thinking out loud really.

here goes again certs ive got of this family
mary irene born 12th oct 1925 nottingham father james charles culliford mother fanny culliford formally mundy
alan raymond born 5th sept 1927 worksop father and mother the same as above .
edith fanny taylor died 3 dec 1933 informent charles trevor taylor .
death of her husband 24th june charles culliford taylor suicide by coal gas poisoning certified by the coroner .so how can he go from culliford to taylor and still no sign of a marriage i found the coroners reports in 2 newspapers also cannot find where they were all buried in doncaster
so the mystery goes on

I wonder if this marriage could be of interest

James Charles Culliford 21y = Janet Isabel Taylor 23y -- in london 1900

father George Fry Culliford
Father James Taylor

not found on a census yet but did find on Elec roll 1919 at 6 Kingswell Villas - Enfield

wonder what family they may have had if any !!

Mavis

The James Charles posted above was born 1879 died 1967 in Barking.

Another born 1884 in Islington
James C Culliford 1884 to William Finder Culliford.
He is with his dad 1891 but not 1901.

James Culliford born 29/2/1884 (Leap Year)!! admitted to school in Borough of Islington on 23/4/188 by William Culliford of 5,Story Street (This is where William F Culliford and Mary A were on 1881 census.

William Finder Culliford married 21/12/1879 to Mary Ann Chapman.
William F also married 26/10/1890 to Jane Spiller nee Nicholls.

James Charles Culliford married 1908 to Hilda Gertrude Badger in 1911 they are in Wales.
Had son Kenneth l Culliford born lambeth 1912 died 1933 in Berkshire
Hilda Gertrude Culliford born @ 1881 Leicester died 1965 Ramsgate.

No death to correspond with James Charles Culliford 1884 so could this be the same man who became Taylor??

Maryb.

The James and Janet Culliford are indexed as Cullingford 1911 they only have a daughter Florence 1906


That other James charles [1884] and Hilda in 1911 -- James is a colliery worker , so may well be the Culliford you are looking for

Are we getting there !!!

mavis

hi on his death cert it just says charles culliford taylor

the cert was certified by the coroner
he was 43 in 1934 i dont even think he was married to my aunt
so the mystery still goes on
his first job was a clerk to the famous barrister sir edward marshall hall
with what it said at the inquest

Does it give the occupation of James Charles Culliford on the birth certs?

The one I posted married to Hilda Gertrude worked in the Colliery in 1911 and yours went to Doncaster to work in the colliery!!

If he did marry Hilda maybe that is the reason he couldn't marry Miss Mundy.

Maryb.

charles wasnt born till1891 i cannot get a birth cert because i dont know where he came from and i have nothing to go on because of his name change i am assuming it was just charles culliford
This is how it starts on 2 childrens birth certs his name is
james charles culliford
next its charles trevor culliford
then its charles trevor taylor
He was in the poll book in nottingham spring 1926 lodging but no aunt with him at the adress where there fist daughter mary irene culliford was born according to the childs birth cert the next child alan raymond was born in worksop in 1927
The next child joyce culliford was born in doncaster
then the next child bernard was born with last name taylor
then the last child gordon was born as taylor and aunt died giving birth to him in dec 1933 and the baby died 6 weeks after in 1934
so in the june of that year thats when he did what he did to him and the children gassed them all and window cleaner found them

Hi

I've been following this thread with interest and have some questions / thoughts (which may not help) but ....

If Charles Culliford "Taylor" was in London until 1927 - assuming working with Edward Marshall Hall (who died in 1927) how were 2 children born in 1925 Nottingham (Mary) and 1927 Worksop (Alan) ? Unless Fanny was in London (working as a servant or somewhere like a Lyons Corner House???) and went back to Nottingham to have her child (where did her family come from?) - doesn't answer the second child though.

If he worked for such an eminent man what work was he doing in the Colliery - clerical or manual - what does it show on any of the children's birth certificates?

As the newspaper articles are based on what information they were told (by someone????) can we be sure of the accuracy of ALL the facts - especially if he and Fanny were creating a new life in Doncaster using the name Taylor?

I wonder whether the newspaper journalists found a name of someone who worked with Marshall Hill and assigned it to the man who died in Doncaster - or the man who died in Doncaster had previously seen a similar name to his and 'created' a history before Doncaster?

As Marshall Hall was famous is there any way to confirm additional facts about the person who worked for him? Perhaps eliminating other James Cullifords? For example, when did his employment cease with Marshall Hall.

Is there records of the business (fruit?) that was supposedly purchased - if so where? Why did it fail / he not receive compensation?

If any of these 'facts' can be supported then it might fill in gaps in the timeline?

My thoughts exactly,all the info eg his date of birth and middle names of Trevor etc are all hearsay.

The only actual fact is the name of James Charles Culliford as father on birth cert,so I would be inclined to believe that is true.

That is why I thought the one married to Hilda Gertrude could have been connected.

Was there a signature anywhere for Charles C Taylor to compere to 1911 census?

Maryb.

Maryb

Yes - I would be interested to know what work the one in Wales did in the colliery which would probably transfer easily to Doncaster rather than working for a barrister then working in a colliery. Usually colliery workers started so young - so not just easy to decide to do the work I wouldn't think - more likely to take on someone with the skill.

Also if wife from Wales, Gertrude Hilda was on his trail and he somehow knew about another James Culliford who married a Taylor - if that was the one who worked for the barrister - from a national newspaper, then it would be soooooo easy to use Taylor - wife from Wales would find him very hard to track whereas Culliford is much easier - especially if she was enquiring at collieries!!

All complete speculation of course!

The other James C Culliford born Islington 1879 married 1900 to Janet Isabel Taylor was a clerk on marriage record.
Janet died 1932 left probate to husband James C Culliford who now was a Electric Light Examiner.

Maryb.

There is a way of finding out what the job of James Charles Culliford [1884] was in 1912 his son Kenneth L Culliford was born in Lambeth -- no mines there -- but that would mean buying the birth cert.
as Kenneth died in 1933 in Berkshire wonder who reported his death ??

in 1901 that James Culliford was 17y working in Claridges Hotel - St Georges Sq.
as a servant . born Islington

in 1911 27y he was an under ground labourer in the mine. born Islington


are the 2 James's cousins ? he could have known that the older of them married a Taylor and he might have tried to pass him self of as him -- if you can understand my point -- avoiding debtors ??

What was his occupation on the 1st childs birth ??

where did the story about owning a fruit store come from -- was that the news papers again.

His age at death is really only what could be called speculation if no one really
knew it .

Mavis

he was in nottingham at 122 bergass road in spring of 1926 but in autumn of that year he wasnt there child was born at that address according to her birthcert his name on her birth cert was james charles culliford and in poll book for that year it was just charles culliford her family came from brackley northamptonshire her name on bithcert which i have was edith fanny mundy as she was my grandmothers younger sister born 1898
i dont know who gave the coroner the info that was is newspaper the story made the papers twice
i only have his age as being born in 1891 according to his death cert in 1934 he really is a mysteryi will try and take another look at 1911 census someone in his family must know of this tragedy

Well that James C Culliford (Islington 1879) marrying Janet Taylor sounds much more likely to have been in the employ of Marshall Hall - and I assume he was still around as was named in probate and she hadn't cut him out!