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His military records are almost as if he forget Fred! Eileen you just need to buy that birth certificate!!!!!

But where was Alice on 2nd April 1911 (if she was Lizzie's daughter)?

Curious

Hi Mary - I don't think George "lied" as such, but it wasn't uncommon for parents to state one of their children's children was their own.

The facts are that in the 1911 census George and Elizabeth claimed to have had 8 children, all living and accounted for but Alice wasn't one of them.

Hi Eileen who brought your half sister up
after Philip remarried.

Wouldn't have thought George would have lied about having daughter Alice on his military records.



Maryb.

Well Eileen, we can now confirm that Alice Hawkins Inskip was born 17 Feb 1911 in Poplar (as per George's service records). As I said above my suspicion is that she may be the daughter of Lizzie Inskip b 1893 (daughter of George and Elizabeth Sarah).

You can confirm for definite who her parents were by ordering her birth certificate from GRO http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ It will cost £9.25

The birth details are posted above but here they are again:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alice H Inskip
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1911
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 573

Just a thought - the use of what looks like a surname as a middle name often denotes the father's surname if the parents weren't married.

On the 1881 census George is at home with siblings, one of whom is Ernest this is him in 1911 with wife and daughter Alice

1911 England Census
about Ernest Inskip Name: Ernest Inskip
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Biggleswade, Bedfordshire
Civil parish: Ilford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: 193 Ley Street, Ilford, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Porter
Registration district: Romford
Registration District Number: 191
Sub-registration district: Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 35
Piece: 9866
Household Members: Name Age
Ernest Inskip 30
Alice Inskip 31
William Inskip 6
Alice Inskip 4
Arthur Inskip 1/12
Thomas Samuel 14

Seems likely that your Alice is named after her aunt and cousin.

NICHOLLS, ANNIE

Rank:
Civilian
Date of Death:
19/04/1941
Age:
46
Regiment/Service:
Civilian War Dead

Reporting Authority
ILFORD, MUNICIPAL BOROUGH

Additional Information:

of 88 Westwood Road. Daughter of Mr. G. Inskip, of 61 Smithies Road, Abbey Wood, Plumstead London, and of the late E. Inskip; wife of George Chappel Nicholls. Died at Westwood Road.

CWGC:

NICHOLLS, GEORGE CHAPPEL

Rank:Civilian
Date of Death:
19/04/1941
Age:45
Regiment/Service:
Civilian War Dead

Reporting Authority
ILFORD, MUNICIPAL BOROUGH

Additional Information:

Home Guard; of 88 Westwood Road. Husband of Annie Nicholls. Died at Westwood Road.

Hi all.

Thanks for your reply's.

The reason for trying to discover who Alice was is that the daughter of Philip and Alice is my now discovered half sister and her health is very frail, I have very rashly promised to see if I can find out any info.

Philip did in due course marry Sarah, but there was no divorce from Alice.

What I have discovered is very little, there are no Inskips that I have found who are able to help.

The witnessess to the marriage of Alice and Philip where George C Nichols and Annie Nichols(nee Inskip), have made contact with there only serviving son, but he is unable to help, his parents died in the Blitz's in 1941, and while he lived with the extended Inskip's for a while he was sent away to school in Surrey and then into the services so no luck there.

Will look at the surgestions and the couple of names mentiond in these posts.


I know that a marriage certificate will not where her father lived but given that at time of marriage she shows Herbert Rd as at the 1911 census, hope that clears up that misunderstanding.

She states she is 23 years old at time of marriage so have used this as my starting point as a guide to year of birth but have trawled 5 years either side of this date.

Regards

Eileen

I'm having second thoughts now!

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Winifred Eva Inskip
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1909
Registration district: Romford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 559


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915

Name: Winifred E Inskip
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1915
Age at Death: 5
Registration district: Romford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 720

I think Rose may be on to something about a relative's child. George attested 06 Sep 1915 - some months after Winnie died, which is perhaps why he didn't list her.

Alice was registered as Inskip in 1911 so already had that surname, although her birthplace of Poplar is a little outside their normal area. Might she be their granddaughter and their eldest Lizzie is the mother?

So birth certificate of Alice as posted by Eringobragh should give her mother. Which willl then hopefully find her in 1911 census.

Jude

This verifies the info on the service record:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1891
Inskip George Romford 4a 471
Stevens Elizabeth Sarah Romford 4a 471

I'm guessing that he just listed their youngest children on his service record, perhaps those still at home?

The birth record that Erin... posted above for Alice is definitely the correct one, except we now know her actual date of birth.

My guess is that Winnie age 2 on the 1911 census is actually 2 MONTHS old and is probably Alice. EDIT: No - see my meanderings below.

George does NOT list a Winnie on his service record.

Did the daughter born 1936 marry as Inskip rather that Bradford ?

According to George's service records he had a daughter Alice Hawkins born in Poplar 17 Feb 1911.

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: George Inskip
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Age at enlistment: 44
Residence: 11 Herbert Road, Sevin Kings
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 118620
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers
Number of images: 8

He married Elizabeth Sarah Stevens on 4 July 1891 (or 1896)

They had (in addition to Alice above)
Louisa Bertha b 12 Jan 1905 in Ilford
Ernest Clifford b 23 Apr 1907 in Romford
Frederick Arthur b 9 Mar 1901 ?? in Ilford

These were apparently verified by the army.

According to a tree which I think is Eileens, Philip remarried 1943 in Northumberland to Sarah Alice Cowens 1916-1997.They had 2 daughters
Also states Alice Inskip 1910 -1950.

Maryb.

What about this....

Births Mar 1911 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inskip Alice H Poplar 1c 573

Are the witnesses related ?

what was George's occupation on the marriage cert?

I note Alice and Philip's child was named after her deceased sister.

thinking outside the box a bit, have you looked at the wider family for an Alice born about the right time, eg a cousin to George and Elizabeth's children , who may have been adopted by them at a later date and taken their surname?

How do you know Alice was born in 1910?

And a marriage certificate wouldn't show where her father was living???

Jude

same family in 1901

1901 Census Household Record Household information
Address 120 Derby Rd
Civil Parish Ilford
Rural District
Town or Village or Hamlet Ilford
Ecclesiastical Parish St Marys
Parliamentary Borough or Division Southern Or Romford
County Borough, Municipal Borough or Urban District Ilford
Administrative County Essex

Householder 1
Name Albert Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 7
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Essex Barking
Language
Infirmity

Householder 2
Name Annie Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 5
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Essex Barking
Language
Infirmity

Householder 3
Name Elizabeth Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Wife
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 31
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Essex Barking
Language
Infirmity

Householder 4
Name Elizabeth Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Daughter
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 9
Sex Female
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Essex Barking
Language
Infirmity

Householder 5
Name Fred Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 0
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Essex Seven Kings
Language
Infirmity


Householder 6
Name George Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Head
Condition as to Marriage Married
Age Last Birthday 30
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation Labourer General
Employment Status
Where Born Beds Biggleswade
Language
Infirmity

Householder 7
Name Willie Inskip
Relation to Head of Family Son
Condition as to Marriage
Age Last Birthday 2
Sex Male
Profession or Occupation
Employment Status
Where Born Kent Belvedere
Language
Infirmity