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MaureeninNY
That is interesting - certainly gives me something to look at especially as the age for Mary A E Steele ties in with Full Age on the marriage cert - William J Thomson fits with the witness and also Henrietta - they can all add to my list of 'possibles' for my tree - the Steel/Thomson leaves are sparse!
I thought it was odd that the marriage was in 1865 and Eliza Ann was born in 1876.
Janet
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Potty
Yes, the 1901 is them, showing children Eliza, Robert and George, then the 1911 showing Robert , George, Thomas and Ernest - Eliza is missing - which is another mystery and the assumption based on the 1911 Census is that she is the child that that had died. However, my Dad remembers his aunt Eliza and who she married! They might have had another daughter and called her Eliza but the marriage I have found is in 1915. Another mystery for another day!
Janet
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Gosh it's tough to tell if you have the correct births and marriages.
This would appear to be "someone" in 1871:
1871 census transcription details for: St Leonard Rd, Bromley
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 573
Folio: 5
Page: 9
Reg. District: Poplar
Sub District: Bow
Parish: Bromley
Enum. District: 25
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: St Leonard Rd, Bromley
County: London, Middlesex
THOMSON, Eliza A Head F 63 1808 Kent
THOMSON, William J Son M 24 1847 Middlesex
STEELE, Mary A E Daughter F 26 1845 Middlesex
STEELE, Henrietta Daughter F 1 1870 Middlesex
ADAMS, Jane Boarder F 50 1821 Middlesex
It looks as though Henrietta died in 1888 in Poplar but I don't see her in 1881.
Maureen
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Name: George Henry Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1899
Baptism Date: 3 May 1899
Father's Name: Robert William Smith
Mother's name: Eliza Ann Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers
The family in 1901:
1901 England Census
about Robert Smith
Name: Robert Smith
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Smith
Mother's name: Eliza Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Bromley, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Bromley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew Bromley
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 246
Piece: 344
Folio: 167
Page Number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Smith 30
Eliza Smith 25
Eliza Smith 6
Robert Smith 4
George Smith 2
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Yes that is them - one of the family comments was that they 'married late' - which they did aged 27 and 33 but also after having a number of children - Ernest aged 1 is my grandfather,
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Is this the family in 1911 - but they say they have been married 17 years; 5 children, 1died:
1911 England Census
about Eliza Smith
Name: Eliza Smith
Age in 1911: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Poplar
Civil parish: Poplar
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Devas Street, Bromley By Bow E
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 17
Estimated Marriage Year: 1894
Registration district: Poplar
Registration District Number: 22
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Piece: 1682
Household Members: Name Age
Robert William Smith 41
Eliza Smith 34
Robert Smith 14
Henry George Smith 12
Thomas William Smith 4
Ernest Smith 1
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Wisechild thank you for that explanation of the signing/not signing aspect
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I wouldn´t worry too much about spellings. Most people didnt read & write too well until relatively recently & made an educated guess.
As for signing or not signing their names, many registrars assumed that people couldn´t write, so told them to make a cross without even asking if they knew how to sign.
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EDIT: - PLEASE SEE FINAL PAGE
I have another dilemma - and am hoping others on this board will have some suggestions on where to go next!
Eliza Ann Steel is my paternal great grandmother
I obtained her MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE
Eliza Ann Steel married Robert William Smith in 1904 (Poplar – St Andrew, Bromley). On the marriage certificate her father is shown as George Steel (Deceased) Able Seaman, Eliza is aged 27, Robert is 33.
I have obtained her BIRTH CERTIFICATE (at least I think I have):
Born November 1876 – Poplar – registered by mother – SHE MARKED.
Mother Name: Mary Ann Eliza Steele then amended to Steel on the certificate - formerly Thompson
Father Name: Thomas John Steel no 'e' shown on Cert (Yuk – Thomas John doesn't agree with Marriage Info!)
Father Occupation: Merchant Seaman (that’s close enough to Marriage Info)
Birth shown as 12 Lion Street – gone now, but not far too from the docks, I believe
So I obtained the Steel / Thomson (without the 'e' AND without the ‘p’ this time) MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE
Name:THOMSON, Mary Ann Eliza
Registration district: [?]Poplar
County:London
Year of registration:1865
Quarter of registration:Apr-May-Jun
Volume no: [?]1C
Page no: [?]1130
Mary Ann Eliza Thomson married one of the following people
HARRIS, William
>>>>>>STEELE, George Henry
ELLIS, Elizabeth Sarah
So, May 1865 (Bromley St Leonard) marriage, details as follows
Name: George Henry Steele (yes with an ‘e’) – HE SIGNED his full name - with the 'e'
Full Age (not much help there)
Bachelor
Address at time of Marriage – Bromley – which is not helpful
Occupation: Sawyer:
Father: Henry George Steele also a Sawyer
Name: Mary Ann Eliza Thomson (without the ‘p’) – SHE SIGNED Mary Ann E Thomson
Full Age (not much help there either)
Spinster
Address at time of Marriage – Bromley – still not helpful
Father: William John Thomson - deceased
The witnesses were: William John Thomson and Ellen Steele (BOTH SIGNED IN FULL)
So I am seeking your views on the following:
Have I somehow managed to involve myself with wrong certs? (I am very careful to check, as far as I can)
Why do some of my relatives ‘forget’ how to sign their name when registering a birth - or did they send someone else to register the birth - or have I got the wrong people?
What do I do next to find them?
I am having difficulty finding an appropriate Thomson family or Steel family before or after the marriage / with a (suspected) relevant birth year on Census Records, to show me where to try to keep looking for them - but I have found these:
Baptism
Day:18
Month:Mar
Year:1825
Son/Daughter:Son
Forename:George Henry
Surname:Steele
First Parent:William
Second Parent:Elizabeth
Notes:
Parish:Portsea St Mary
County:Hampshire
So he would have been about 40 when he married Mary Ann Eliza (if it is him) but wrong father shown!
I also found these Thomson records (I’d go for the St George in the East record as the most possible as Mary Ann E, born Mile End, is too young but possibly related!)
Name:THOMSON, Mary Ann Eliza
Registration district: [?]St. George in the East
County:London
Year of registration:1845
Quarter of registration:Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume no:[?] II
Page no:[?]107
Name:THOMSON, Mary Ann Eliza
Registration district: [?]Chelsea
County:London
Year of registration:1845
Quarter of registration:Oct-Nov-Dec
Volume no:[?] 3
Page no:[?]31
Name:THOMSON, Mary Ann E
Registration district: [?]Mile End Old Town
County:London
Year of registration:1875
Quarter of registration:Apr-May-Jun
Volume no:[?] 1C
Page no:[?]583
Also, I am struggling to find a census that fits for George Henry Steele, but have found this death
Name:STEELE, George
Registration district: [?]Poplar
County:London
Year of registration:1898
Quarter of registration:Apr-May-Jun
Age at death:66
Volume no:1C
Page no:332
But then the Portsea Baptism is (probably) out and means I should be looking for a birth around 1832.
I also found these Mary Ann Steele deaths - which put the deceased's birth around 1844/1845 and that would agree with 'Full Age' on the marriage certificate:
Name:STEELE, Mary Ann
Registration district: [?]Whitechapel
County:London
Year of registration:1895
Quarter of registration:Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:48
Volume no:1C
Page no:230
AND
Name:STEELE, Mary Ann E
Registration district: [?]Southwark
County:London
Year of registration:1907
Quarter of registration:Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death:63
Volume no:1D
Page no:87
I think need to try to attach Steeles and Thomsons to a family on a census to go back further - and confirm I have the correct people.
I have managed to find other elusive relatives but these Steeles and Thomsons are causing me more than a little confusion. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.
Janet
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