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Thanks Chris .I wonder what her origins were ...at least I don't have to print it out for my mum to do facial family resemblances

My gran and her neice Olive were both teased at school for being darker eyes and or skin

nana.s father was Jewish Latvian but doesn't look very dark

Olives father was a professor from Roumania

Simie on below, so Not that 'Lottie' one on 1901!...

Chris :)

1901 (Find My Past)
Maxwell M Benoliel Head Married Male 68 1833 Clergyman Church Of England -
Harriett Benoliel Wife Married Female 64 1837 - London, England
Sinice H Benoliel Daughter Single Female 28 1873 - Croydon, Surrey, England
Alice M Holmes Servant Single Female 23 1878 General Servant Domestic Paddington, Middlesex, England
Street Oxford Road
Parish Willesden
County Middlesex
Municipal ward South Kilburn
Registration district Hendon
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1221
Folio 175
Page 25

(and as said, with her Mother and Daughter 1911, Surrey, Simie Carmichael, widow)


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702286.81

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758108.0

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1362903


http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3349592/3349597/93/LIVERPOOL

(1907 article above, with mention of 7, Albert Row, Penrhiwtyn, Neath)



29 June 1907 - Wellington Journal - Wellington, Shropshire, England

THE CHARGE OF BABY FARMING.
Subsequently the prisoners were charged before Captain Denton with having stolen 4.000 feet of cinematographie films, valued at I3e. 4d.. from the Clarence Mimic Hall, Crickhowcl. Brecon, on the Uth December; last. They were also committed ...”

More and more convinced that this is our Lottie

I don't do rootschat and brigid has had eye problems but get help sharing all this information Chris

Apologies for the mistakes it all came very suddenly and she was making notes from memories

Our mother likes reading the news reports and comparingns tyles


The prison Bridewell is mentioned for Leo

Wonder where lottie was sent and if they have records


My aunt says even if it wasn't her grandmother this was a brave woman who helped others. And I.m glad lily.s baby wasn't dead. I wonder if it was retrieved from the workhouse and if thevgrandmother was a heroine for reporting the traffic or mercenary after money and compensation?

The Lottie Roberts who was taken to trial in 1907 for conspiracy to defraud and for larceny of 4 cinematography films !

From newspaper reports we know she
had a baby daughter in Swansea on 19 th Nov 1906

While lodging with Mrs Philips at 122 western St

She then paid 4s. A week for the baby to board with Mrs Ball of 7 Albert row penrhhiewtyn Neath

Mrs Ball did not want to part with the baby

as Lottie was imprisoned for 8 months in July 1907 maybe the girl was still with her in 1911 and was unofficial adopted

Update

Lottie.s baby:

Jessie Smith birth registration Swansea last quarter of 1906

Mothers mmm given as Bourn

This fits in with passing Herbert Smith off as her husband and Lottie Roberts also known as Bourn E

Jessie was a name liked by the actress as her stage name was Jessie Baker

Now to find if Jessie became Jessie Ball when fostered

Update on 1939 registration I paid a Charlotte Dabnar with correct birthdate

Husband is James E Rather a postman and are warden B ,15/12 1880

Living bridge at Atherston Warwickshire

Can't find their marriage

Other Charlotte with correct births had middle names on 1939 reg so eliminate them

on the 1911 census there is a James Edward Dabner born 1880/81 married to Charlotte with daughter Kathleen Mary. Kathleen's mother's maiden name was Sheppard and the marriage of James and Charlotte Sheppard was in 1903. Living in Tamworth where both Charlotte and Kathleen were born