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Thank you all again, this has way exceeded my hopes and expectations!

The explanation of "say" makes sense as John H's occupation is given elsewhere as gold trade, thank you for that.

The really interesting bit for me is the link to Beaminster. My Mother spoke once about an Aunt Lizzie and and Aunt Annie in Beaminster but I had no idea which bit of the familiy this was or how it fitted in. So you've opened up a whole new line of enquiry for me, LiverBird, thank you!

I need to think about these results a bit more, but on first glance I think one of these references also addresses something else I know about John H: my Mother told me he was orphaned at an early age. Well maybe it wasn't so early, and maybe he only lost his Father: it looks to me as if the extract above at 16 Feb 2012 23:32 would be compatible with the Stacey wife & children being adopted en masse by the Chicks between 1851 - 71, presumably because of the death of the breadwinner, daughter going back to live with parents after losing husband? Anyone care to comment on this possibility?

And for bonus points, can anyone find a reference to Virgent in this context? I've only ever heard the name spoken, never seen it written, so heterographs are possible.

You realise of course that this success will encourage further questions .... ;-)

Keith

A later edit: my Mother also mentioned a "Mr Talman who ran the hardware store", again this was something she said and I wrote down later, so it seems highly probable that this was Anthony Toleman. "I love it when a plan comes together"!

Name: John Hamilton Stacey
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1838
Registration district: Yeovil
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 10
Page: 534



1861 England Census about John H Stacey
Name: John H Stacey
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Youval, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Ecclesall Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 192
Piece: 3474
Folio: 42
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Jackson 59
Mary E Jackson 27
Annie M Jackson 22
Samuel Jackson 17
George S Wright 23
John H Stacey 22>>>>>>Lace warehouseman

1851 England Census about John Stacey
Name: John Stacey
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Nephew
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Yeovil, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Beaminster
Town: Beaminster
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Beaminster
Sub-registration district: Evershot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 18
Piece: 1860
Folio: 413
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Anthony Toleman 47
Mary Toleman 40
John Stacey 12
James Hutchins 29>>>>Hired man
Edith Legg 17>>>>>servant


Name: Anthony Toleman
Birth Year: abt 1804
Age: 63
Burial Date: 5 Apr 1867
Parish: Beaminster

1901 England Census about John N Stacey
Name: John N Stacey>>>>>>>>>>Looks like H on image
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:>>>>>>>>>>>120 barking Rd

Occupation:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Travelling Clerk

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Canning Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 4
Piece: 1585
Folio: 32
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth James 60
John Talbot 69
Frank Pohl 12
John N Stacey 35
Vaughan Enoch 59

Dorset, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-2001 about John Chick
Name: John Chick
Birth Year: abt 1807
Age: 64
Burial Date: 14 Jul 1871
Parish: Beaminster Holy Trinity

Name: John Chick
Probate Date: 19 Jul 1871
Death Date: 11 Jul 1871
Death Place: Dorset, England
Registry: Blandford


Effects under £4,000

1851 England Census about Martha Chick
Name: Martha Chick
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Chick
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Chick
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Beaminster, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Beaminster
Town: Beaminster
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Beaminster
Sub-registration district: Evershot
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 72
Piece: 1860
Folio: 422
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
John Chick 45>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Builder employ 8 men & 2 boys
Elizabeth Chick 49
John Chick 23
Richard Chick 18
Philadelphia Chick 15
Edwin Chick 13
Martha Chick 11
Ellen Chick 7
Lydia Croft 17>>>>>>>>>>Servant



Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Martha Chick
Name: Martha Chick
Baptism Date: 7 Jun 1840
Parish: Beaminster
Father's Name: John Chick
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Chick

"Say" could have meant he was a clerk in the Assay Office that was situatuated in Sheffield. The Assay office measured precious metals and stones.

Marriages Mar 1865 (>99%)

Chick Martha Beaminster 5a 553

Stacey John Hamilton Beaminster 5a 553



Deaths Mar 1869 (>99%)
Stacey John Hamilton 30 Ecclesall B. 9c 197

Keith the four names are simply the 2 couples who share the same page.
They are not paired up until about 1911 so it's not evident who married who. ( or is it "Whom "?)
I didn't know that you were already aware of the pairing.


Ages on census are not always accurate. Sometimes it depends when in the year the birthday falls ( before or after the date of the census) and sometimes they just LIE !

??


Name: John H Stacey
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Martha Stacey
Gender: Male
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Stoke Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:>>>>>>>>>>>Manufacturing jewellery gold

Condition as to marriage:>>>>>single

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: Stoke Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 179
Folio: 32
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Stacey 50>>>>>>>>>>>>Widow, living on own means, born Beaminster, Dorset
John H Stacey 25
Annie E Stacey 24


1871 England Census about Martha Stacey
Name: Martha Stacey
[Martha Chick]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Chick
Gender: Female
Where born: Beaminster, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Beaminster
Town: Beaminster
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Registration district: Beaminster
Sub-registration district: Beaminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 48
Piece: 2026
Folio: 67
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
John Chick 65
Philadelphia Chick 35
Martha Stacey 30
John H Stacey 5
Ann E Stacey 4
William H Stacey 2
Emily Butcher 16
Heneritta Whittle 14

Brilliant, thanks team ;-)

John Hamilton Stacey in Eccleshall is what I believe too, I have ordered his birth certificate.

Mike: I'm afraid this is going to be a silly question but in your quote:

BEDDALE Emma W. Ham 4a 708
Brennan Joseph W.Ham 4a 708
Peake Margaret W. Ham 4a 708
Stacey John H W. Ham 4a 708

The last two are exactly what I hoped to find on the same page, but what is the significance of the first two please?

"Have you found John in 1911 to see who his wife is ?"

No, I know who his wife is, I needed to find the marriage date, leading to information on their parents. They are my maternal grandparents.

Glitterbaby: thank you for the 1911 info, that's them all right! but his birth year is one out, should be 1865 I believe. I also wonder about her DoB, I'll have to check that as I thought it was 1885 based on circumstantial evidence which I am currently checking.

What does the "Say" mean, any idea?

"Look for births of possible offspring on freebmd"

I believe I know the offspring, it's siblings and parents I'm interested in at the moment.

Thanks to all of you, that's been very helpful.

Keith

This looks like the other couple.
1911 census transcription details for: 9 Norman Road East Ham
RG14PN9545 RG78PN509 RD188 SD5 ED26 SN207

Reg. District: West Ham Sub District: South East Ham
BRENNAN, Joseph Head Married M 37 1874 Tramway Motor Man Ireland Sligo Co Resident
BRENNAN, Emma Wife Married F 28 1883 East Ham Essex
Married under one year.

Maureen

Possible for Margaret on 1901 but shown as Peaks with father of Thomas

BUT you are going to need that marriage cert

Easy enough to find who married whom..........look for births of possible offspring on freebmd

Whichever person you are interested in, either John or Margaret, you simply order the certificate for THAT person.
You don't need to specify the other party

??
Births Dec 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stacey John Hamilton Ecclesall B. 9c 252

1911 poss

STACY, John Hamitton Head Married M 45 1866 Say Clerk Sheffield Yorkshire VIEW
STACY, Margaret Wife Married F 30 1881 Shoreditch London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9478 Reference:
RG14PN9478 RG78PN508 RD188 SD4 ED8 SN103

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
Canning Town Enumeration District:
8 Parish:
West Ham

Address:
60 Leyes Road

When and where was John born?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1910
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEDDALE Emma W. Ham 4a 708
Brennan Joseph W.Ham 4a 708
Peake Margaret W. Ham 4a 708
Stacey John H W. Ham 4a 708


Have you found John in 1911 to see who his wife is ?

I believe John Hamilton Stacey married Margaret Peake in West Ham in 1910. Can anyone confirm this please? I would like to find out about their parents which probably means I have to get a copy of the marriage certificate so I'd like to identify the wedding unambiguously.

Many thanks

Keith