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this is the one sylvia

Name: Ellen Osbaldeston
Birth Date: abt 1909
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1956
Age at Death: 47
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 34

oops


no it can't be your grandmother



this one is too old!!

so going right back to the very beginning, you said your grandmother died as Ellen Osbaldeston in 1956 in Oldham?


Is that correct????


I looked at Lancashire bmds,

I could find NO Ellen Sweetmans dying 1953 to 1956

and just this one Osbaldeston


Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1955

OSBALDESTON Ellen 84 Littleborough Rochdale L/34B/44




Rochdale is of course in the Oldham area



Is this your grandmother??






If so, may I suggest that your information is not all correct.




This is the problem with family stories ............ whether it is your mother or an aged aunt or cousin!


I can tell you from personal experience that even mothers don't know everything about their parents ..........................

My mother always said her father's birthday was Dec 25 1884

NOPE ....... he was born on January 9 1885. That is only 2 weeks out, but was not discovered until after he died in 1963, and Mum had died in 1961 so she never knew that she had been told a lie by him!




sylvia

I am new to this. i am grateful from everyone helpin gme
. its a lot of information to take in from.all of you.

I have been reading all the message from begininng.

so I can understand all he messages.

North,

Why are you not trusting all the information thats been found,!!!.
your family situation is more common than you think,

If get a birth certificate for the children of Harold and Ellen.......that will confirm no marriage took place,as you know,

ask and find out who the Sweetman grandparents were to your mother,,,then aquire the birth certificate for the 1914 birth of Ellen Sweetman Manchester,,,,,,and you may be suprised that the birth 1914 is that of your Ellen Sweetman.a single lady from birth to death.as Ellen Osbaldenston....

I would rather not keep trying to explain by pm

The death in 1994 did NOT match the birth in 1914 which I have said many times now

If you were born in November you would not have your birth registered in September

If anything the Ellen Rosenberg death in 1992 matches the Ellen Sweetman birth in 1914

I just typed ellen sweetman in Lancashire, born in 1914.
in birth records and found the death record that matches the 1994.

I used Ancestry.

slap in the face there then


our findings are not to be trusted!

If he says what you have told me, then you are right.

I am pleased you are going to take up this course, I am sure it will be helpful in the future. I dont know what you expect to gain from it in this particular case?

It seems that everything I have posted has been ignored so I wish you luck

It wasn't easy to divorice like now. He couldn't marry ellen as he was still married to his wife. She left him.

I'm joining a Trace Your family history course for searching online .

I took one where we didnt do anything on pc. The teacher just explaining each records, birth,death, marriage, cencus,parish records and many other certificates. Very imformative class.

Its the same teacher who is going to run the course with searching online.

The family allowence book would be in the surname of SWEETMAN,,,,,,because lawfully Ellen was not married to Harold.......

both OSBALDENSTON children born in the 1940s,,,,,,are registered under both surnames ,

SWEETMAN and OSBALDENSTON.........

OSBALDENSTON---mothers maiden name---Sweetman.

SWEETMAN--mothers maiden name----SWEETMAN....

that amounts to children born to parents that at that time was not married but it was agreed that the children were lawfully given the surname of their father.


North....Ellen was a single lady and never married Harold,,,,,,,,nor a Mr Sweetman.

Harold was a married man as you say, but then divorce was not as easy as now,plus the cost was often outside of what an ordinary working man with a family could afford,also if Harolds wife wouldnt agree it was a 7 yera wait till any application could be made to get one,unless in the meantime one spouse died,then they were free to marry.

so work it out..Ellen died 1957,so could have never put in for a divorce or had the money to...Ellen was commonly known a Osbaldenston as used on her death registration.

but don't forget that the informant on a death certificate only knows what the deceased person has told them


NO documents have to be produced to prove age, name, etc etc



The ONLY information that you can be certain are true on a death certificate, are .........

date and place of death
cause of death
name of doctor or coroner
name and address of informant


EVERYTHING else is hearsay



sylvia

If she was not with Harold when she died who registered her death?

Maybe there will be a clue there?

A man came one day to visit ellen and give my mother some prsents. Her mother wasnt well off. She did get money from Harold but proable was not enough.

maybe my grandmother sent a letter to say that she doesnt have any presents for her children.

My mother thinks it could have been her brother, because he looked a bit like her.

I read they would give a date of birth from NHS 1939 card.

Its very expensive. Its £42. In Scotland its £13.

my grandmother lived at 2 addresses. One with Harold at Ashton Underlyne and the 2nd one in Oldam.

I would think those addresses would help us to find information about her such us the date of birth with using the NHS 1939.

What I was thinking as I did mention...If Ellen was born at the begining of WW1 her father may have been killed her mother then remarried and she took his name?
I think it will be very difficult to trace her without any facts

Did she not have siblings that your mother knew of? or were her parents ever mentioned or visited?

I believe the NHS 1939 Identity Card did not give much information


someone was asking that a few days ago (????, you???) .............. and they were told it was name, address, and that was basically it.

maybe.

Thats think I need to order a few certificate to narrow the search.

The birth in 1914 Manchester could belong to the Ellen Rosenberg death I posted who was born 6th July but without seeing the birth cert you will not know