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I cannot find any more about Elizabeth ............... whether Elizabeth Besemeres, wife of William, is the same as Elizabeth Bessmeres who married Richard Uriah ........... other than the marriage registration.


You would have to buy this certificate to find out more, such as whether the 2 are one and the same


Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)

Bessmeres Elizabeth Newton Abbot 5b 199
Martyn Richard Uriah Newton A. 5b 199




I cannot find a death registration for William Besemeres ..... although that certainly is his will that is probated as I posted above.





sylvia

Your arguement is pusuasive - this certainly looks like the one.

Interesting indeed that Alice Ewings is the executrix of the will of William Besmeres.

It seems likely Alice is a sister or a niece of Elizabeth. She lives with William and Elizabeth Besmeres in London (1861 Census) and in Wales (1871 Census), but each time noted, frustratingly,as 'Visitor'.

After William's death Alice does not stay with Elizabeth but goes to live as 'Friend' to the two sisters Clara and Rhoda White, Principals of the Ladies College in Cheltenham (1881 and 1891 censuses), then in Newquay when they retire (1901 census), and finally with Rhoda White in Cheltenham (1911 census), Clara White having died in 1909 in Cheltenham. Alice died in Cheltenham in 1913.

Other interesting facts:

1. Alice Ewings is at the Cheltenham Ladies College while Sophie Martyn, daughter of Richard Uriah Martyn, is a pupil (1881 census).

2. Alice Ewings lives with Clara and Rhoda White at Mount Wise, Newquay. It is in the same street as lives Jane Martyn, the sister of Richard Uriah Martyn and nephew to both Tom Thriscutt (1901 census). Coincidence, or were they all close friends?

It seems to be an interesting web of connections.

I will appreciate any help with

1. Nailing down the relationship between Alice Ewings and Elizabeth Besmeres nee Ewings

2. What happened to Anne Matilda Pearce (Born 1828, Fowey, Cornwall, Married 1857, St Austell, Cornwall) the first wife of Richard Uriah Martyn. I assume divorce was not an option at that time, and the only death I can find is in 1902. This is still a mystery to me.

Many thanks again
John Thriscutt

John


divorce was an option for very wealthy people ...... but on very very restricted grounds, and very rarely applied for.


Many many marriages did break up though ........ there were no more or less unhappily married people then as now.


What usually happened is that the parties separated, the wife (if she could) often moved to another town, and called herself "widow". Either or both often remarried ........ sometimes calling themselves "widowed" or even Bachelor or Spinster on the new certificate.


You didn't (and still do not, I believe) have to provide proof of your stated marital status.



Of course, the second marriages would be bigamous!





so you need to look for a death registration for Ann(e) Martyn or Ann(e) Matilda or Ann(e) M Martyn around the time of Richard's re-marriage.

Plus, trying to find her on censuses between that time, and the death you have found in 1902.




Alice Ewing does seem to have been born in Paris.

It is also possible that they all did move in the same social circle .......... that would not be at all surprising. But also difficult to prove, as we don't have access to invitations, guest lists, dance programmes, etc etc :-)





syvia

One more interesting fact, to add to the mystery:

Richard EP Martyn, son of Richard Uriah Martyn, married Alice Louisa Ewing Gordon (Born 1873, Huntly, Aberdeenshire). I don't know how to access Scottish records so I have not seen details of the birth or marriage. But I wonder if there is any connection between this lady and Elizabeth and Alice Ewings

Looking at the actual image of that 1881 Census that Mike* posted earlier ........ I could almost be persuaded that Emily Errenge is actually Emily EWINGS

1881 Census

Name: Richard U. Martyn
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Martyn
Gender: Male
Where born: St Austell, Cornwall, England

Civil parish: St Austell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Street Address: Clynton House

Occupation: Living On Land Rents

Registration district: St Austell
Sub-registration district: St Austell

Richard U. Martyn 55
Elizabeth Martyn 57 b.ca 1824, London, Middlesex
Emily Errenge 24 b.ca 1857, Antwerp, Belgium, NIECE, Living on Moneys Invested
Elizth. Gilbert 31 Servant
Elfrida Gilbert 20 Servant



I wonder if she is another of Elizabeth's foreign born nieces?






sylvia

Now, I've just been looking at that ......... I can't find anything at the moment, but I remember coming across something the other day that said she was from Scotland.


So far there is no evidence that the EwingS had any connection with Scotland.

Here is the Alice Louisa information that I spotted the other dya


it's in a Public Family Tree, and no evidence


Alice Louisa Ewing Gordon
Birth: 1873 - Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Death: 25 Sep 1952
Marriage: 03 April 1894 (3 Apr 1894)
Spouse: Richard Elias Pearce Martyn



There are NO parents listed for her.


One tree says married in Cornwall. A second tree says married in Aberdeen, Scotland, and also says that she died in 1948


Nothing is showing up on the English records ........ so I think it must have been in Scotland.

Following Emily ??Ewings


I found this ....... with the names of the children being proof.


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Emily Ewings

Name: Emily Ewings
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1881
Registration district: St Austell
Inferred County: Cornwall
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 147

Spouse:- William Negus


1891 Census

Name: Emily Negus
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Negus
Gender: Female
Where born: Belgium

Civil parish: Walton
Ecclesiastical parish: Walton
Town: Walton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Chertsey
Sub-registration district: Walton

William Negus 39
Emily Negus 34
William M E Negus 9
Raymond E Negus 7
Victor E Negus 4
Alice M Bond 42
Ellen A Blackburn 16



Births Sep 1883 (>99%)

NEGUS Raymond Ewings Kensington 1a 24


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: William Martyn Ewings Negus
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1882
Baptism Date: 15 Feb 1882
Father's Name: William Negus
Mother's name: Emily Negus
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington St Saviour
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers


Name: Raymond Ewings Negus
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1883
Baptism Date: 8 Aug 1883
Father's Name: William Negus
Mother's name: Emily Negus
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington St Saviour
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

Father:- Solicitor


Name: Victor Ewings Negus
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1887
Baptism Date: 16 Mar 1887
Father's Name: William Negus
Mother's name: Emily Negus
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington St Saviour
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers



so we know what happened to her after 1881 ....... but not before!!!




sylvia

The Royal Cornwall Gazette Falmouth Packet, Cornish Weekly News, & General Advertiser (Truro, England), Thursday, January 11, 1894; pg. 5;

Martyn At Clinton St Austell Jan 5th Elizabeth relict of Mr. Richard Uriah Martyn aged 74

The Royal Cornwall Gazette Falmouth Packet, Cornish Weekly News, & General Advertiser (Truro, England), Friday, December 23, 1887; pg. [1]

Richard Uriah Martyn Deceased

Notice is hereby given that all creditore and persons with a claim against the estate of Richard Uriah Martyn late of Clinton St Austell in the Conty of Cornwall Gentleman deceased (who died 29th January 18870) who's will was proved by Arthur Coode and Thomas Rogers Parnell

The Royal Cornwall Gazette Falmouth Packet, Cornish Weekly News, & General Advertiser (Truro, England), Friday, June 21, 1878; pg. 8;


Martyn Besemeres at St Johns Bishopsteignton June 13th Richard Martyn
of Clynton St Austell to Elizabeth Besemerers of Clarence Square Cheltenham

The Standard (London, England), Wednesday, August 08, 1849;

On the 4th at St Johns Camberwell William Besemere esq of Old Kent Road to Elizabeth eldest daughter of the late Abraham Ewings esq of Sydenham Kent

edit as I put Elizabeth as Besemere

The Royal Cornwall Gazette Falmouth Packet, Cornish Weekly News, & General Advertiser (Truro, England), Thursday, April 05, 1894; pg. 5

Martyn Gordon at St Margarets Forge Huntley Aberdeenshire April 3rd
Richard Elias Pearce Martyn son of the late Richard Uriah Martyn pf Clynton St Austell to Alice Louisa Ewing daughter of the late Robert Gordon of Huntley Aberdeenshire

1881 Scotland

Alice Gordon
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert Gordon
Mother's name: Jessie Gordon
Gender: Female
Where born: Huntly, Aberdeenshire
Registration number: 202
Registration district: Huntly
Civil parish: Huntly
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 16 Torrie St.
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 104
Line: 11
Roll: cssct1881_60
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Gordon 57
Jessie Gordon 42
Alice Gordon 7
William Gordon 6
Frederick Gordon 1
Frederick Chyne 21
Andrew H Kiny

I posted the marriage taken from the parish Register for William and Elizabeth on the firt page

I wasn't sure of the name of the second wirness ......now I think it might be Bertha Ewings.


This might be Abraham's burial

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 about Abraham Ewings
Name: Abraham Ewings

Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1838
Burial Date: 14 Mar 1838
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1783
Parish or Poor Law Union: Newington St Mary
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register



sylvia

with regards to Alice
what about this

4. Lady Alice Louisa Douglas (d. 2 Mar 1913), mar. 26 Jun 1862 Rt Rev Alexander Ewing DCL LLD, Bishop of Argyll and the Isles (d. 22 May 1873)

http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/Morton1457.htm

I wonder if Elizabeth lost a few years?????


ondon, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Elizabeth Ewings

Name: Elizabeth Ewings
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1819
Baptism Date: 29 Dec 1819
Father's Name: Abraham Ewings
Mother's name: Elizabeth Ewings
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Dionis Backchurch
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers


from image:-

Born 1 December
Address:- Philpot Lane
Father occupation:- Merchant



sylvia

I MUST go to bed!!!



I'd love to actually connect the Elizabeth Besemeres who married Richard Uriah with the widow of William Besemeres ............. but I think the only way to do that is to buy the marriage certificate.

That would show whether she was a spinster or widow ....... assumign she told the truth!!




night night




sylvia

Back to William Besemeres

Daily News (London, England), Saturday, April 11, 1857;

Admitted to the Fellowship Royal College of Surgeons

William Besemeres of Old Kent Road

Quoy and Sylvia - great information, thank you

Errenge or Ewings:
In the image the double 'r' could be a 'w' and the final 'e' could be 's', but the middle 'e' certainly looks like an 'e' when compared to all the other 'e' and 'i' occurences on the same page. I will see if I can get any access in Belgium.

John


don't forget that most of our ancestors were illiterate ...... and the enumerators were often only a little more literate!


Mis-spellings on the actual forms are rife.


I've been following one today that varies from Shuter to Shooter to Shutter!



So ewings vs ewengs is actually very possible!



sylvia