Find Ancestors

Don't be put off by the musings of the helpers. We're just thinking aloud as we don't have the info you have.

You told us about John Joseph McCall & Margaret Campbell. This is what we've found so far. However we may be going down the wrong track. If so, please tell us where we have gone wrong. Question marks mean that the following info is possible, but not confirmation of proof.

JOHN JOSEPH MC CALL who married MARGARET CAMPBELL in 1899
they had 11 children: John, Margaret, Teresa, William, Catherine (Did you get 11 children from the 1911 census or family info?)
???
Births Jun 1900
McCALL John Joseph W. Derby 8b 515
Births Jun 1902
McCALL Margaret W. Derby 8b 619
Births Jun 1904
McCall Theresa Liverpool 8b 51
Births Sep 1906
McCall William W. Derby 8b 542
Births Dec 1908
McCall Catherine W. Derby 8b 474

Other siblings ???
Births Mar 1912
McCall Lawrence Campbell W.Derby 8b 993
Births Mar 1914
MCCALL Thomas Campbell W. Derby 8b 1007
Births Mar 1918
McCall James P Campbell Liverpool 8b 46
Births Mar 1920
McCall Albert Campbell Liverpool 8b 24
Births Sep 1924
McCall Ellen Campbell Liverpool 8b 66

11th sibling???
Births Sep 1909
McCall Thomas W. Derby 8b 360
Deaths Dec 1909
McCALL Thomas 0 W. Derby 8b 240


These are his marriage details:
John Joseph McCall - age: 19
Marriage Date: 27 Oct 1899
Parish: Liverpool All Saints
Spouse's Name: Margaret Campbell - age 19
Father's Name: William McCall - sailor
Spouse Father's Name: John Campbell - labourer


In 1901 the McCalls were found living with Margaret's father, John.


This is John J's baptism in Liverpool (because it is Roman Catholic the names are in latin.)
Joannes Joseph McCall
Birth Date: 2 Jul 1881
Baptism Date: 11 Jul 1881
Parish: Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette (Liverpool)
Father's Name: Gulielmi Mccall < William
Mother's name: Margaretae Mac Nutty < Margaret, possibly MacNalty or McNulty


John J's parents' marriage details:
Marriages Jun 1876
AVIS John W. Derby 8b 691
Masters Sophia W Derby 8b 691
McCaul William W. Derby 8b 691 <<<<<
McNulty Margaret W. Derby 8b 691 <<<<<

Can't seem to find John J before then. Perhaps someone could check Ancestry baptisms for Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette to see if he has siblings.

Margaret Campbell is a different kettle of fish, and still working on her.



You're doing fine. Persistence is the name of this game.

Ozi

Moving on to Margaret Campbell.

Her marriage details record her father as a labourer, but 1 year later in the 1901 census he's an Engine Driver (the third word looks like Foreman), hardly unskilled.

There is a possibility Kucinta found her family in 1891. Margaret has parents John & Teresa which fits in well with John J & Margaret's daughter, Teresa. Father is a Stationery Engine Driver.

So is this them in 1881? If so she's become younger in 1901.
1881 England Census
Name: John Campbell
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Theresa Campbell
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool
Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 5 CT 1 House Back Queen Ann Street
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Carter
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
Piece: 3633
Folio: 29
Page Number: 54
Household Members: Name Age
John Campbell 29 - Carter
Theresa Campbell 21
Mary Campbell 3
Margt. Campbell 7 months
Lawrece Singleton 26 - lodger


This looks like the marriage
groom's name: John Campbell
bride's name: Theresa Singleton
marriage date: 12 Mar 1879
marriage place: Saint Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire,England

Deaths Sep 1897
Campbell Theresa 36 Liverpool 8b 2

Pm received at 0234.(my line breaks)

here is what i know, names when i can and ????? if i dont .

(g/grandma) margaret campbell married john j mc call 1899.

her dad is john campbell, wife either mary or teresa ?

dont know any further back with them.

john j mc calls dad is william mc call.

his wife is margaret mc nulty also dont know further back with them.

as this is a present fo my mum i would appreciate any help you can give as i am useless at this thankyou.

(keeley's mum)

.....................

You've been doing fine to get as far as you did. Its always best at the start of a request to say what you have already found. People may re-post the appropriate records, but that is to satisfy themselves, and have something visual to refer back to.

Ozibird has pulled things together.

There does seem to be a sticking point, so if no-one today can come up with new information, you may have to purchase the McCall/McNulty MC to get the names of thier fathers. We can speculate, but you/we really do need documentation to back it up.

As you say, the Campbell line is a conundrum. Sometimes, as Ozibird has said, you have to go with gut instincts, such as naming patterns. Hence the suggestion that John Joseph named one of their children Theresa after Margaret Campbells' mother.

The Campbell/Singleton MC would give the names of *their* father's.

BMD can be purchased from gro.gov.uk @ £9.25. No one said family history was cheap!

Just thowing some RC baps on the thread - some you may already have, some may be irrelevant. (images available)

Thomas Patritius McCall
Birth Date: 24 Nov 1890
Baptism Date: 5 Dec 1890
Parish: St Joseph´s
Father's Name: Gulielme Mccall
Mother's name: Margaritae Mcgulty (McNaulty)

Joannes Josephus McCall
Birth Date: 2 May 1900
Baptism Date: 12 May 1900
Parish: All Souls´
Father's Name: Joannis Josephi Mccall
Mother's name: Margaritae Campbell

Gulielmus McCall
Birth Date: 5 Aug 1906
Baptism Date: 15 Aug 1906
Parish: All Souls´
Father's Name: Joannis Mccall
Mother's name: Margaritae Campbell

Can't spot any relevant siblings of John Joseph McCall.

Just had a thought - Derek in Derbyshire has a look up thread. I'll post on there to see if he has a transcribed record for the W Derby marriage. However, he won't if it took place in a Reg office or possibly RC church. But we can but ask.

They keep chopping and Changing their religious allegiance!

C of E - more details for the Campbell/Singleton marriage

John Campbell - occ Carter
Birth Year: abt 1857
Age: 22
Marriage Date: 12 Mar 1879
Parish: Liverpool St Nicholas
Spouse's Name: Theresa Singleton - age 19
Father's Name: John Campbell - occ Porter
Spouse Father's Name: Lawrence Singleton _ occ Carter

John's address - Back Queen Anne St
Theresa's address - Richmond St

Witnesses Anthony Singleton & Margaret Hagan?
...........
When details are added to a PR copy and paste, it usually means that the image is on line on another subsription site. If you don't have access or can't find them. we can send them to you, if you so wish.

Family duties call - bye for now.

Campbell/Singleton RC baps

Catherina Elizabeth Campbell
Birth Date: 28 Sep 1882
Baptism Date: 8 Oct 1882
Parish: St Francis Xavier´s (Francisci Xavarii)
Father's Name: Joannis Campbell
Mother's name: Theresa Anna Singleton
Godparents William McMillan & Catherine McMillan

Maria Ferancerca Campbell
Birth Date: 7 Feb 1884
Baptism Date: 17 Feb 1884
Parish: St Francis Xavier´s (Francisci Xavarii)
Father's Name: Joannis Campbell
Mother's name: Theresa Anna Singleton
Godparents - William McMillan & Maria Ferancerca Battle - Ferancerca could be Francesca

Margarita Campbell
Birth Date: 29 Aug 1880
Baptism Date: 5 Sep 1880
Parish: St Francis Xavier´s (Francisci Xavarii)
Father's Name: Joannis Campbell
Mother's name: Teresia Singleton
God mother Maria Battle

Pm received -
thank you. all these names are still in the family and this is not uncommon as i have been told. (refering to the list of children Ozibird found)

Can you go further back or is that all the info you can find ?
.......................

Firstly, Ozibird searched for the McCaul/Campbell births on freebmd.org.uk. It doesn't need a subscription or registration, which means anyone can search for free - like it says on the tin. ;-)

After the beginning of Sep 1911, all birth registrations show the mother's maiden name (mmn). Ozibird Selected Birth, surname McCaul mmn Campbell, and a date range. She probably also selected Liverpool as the district.

Can we go further? Well, we can find Theresa Singleton's birth registration on freebmd.

Go to the search page and select 'births'.
Surname Singleton, first name Teresa.
We know she was aged 19 in 1879 when she got married, so she was probably born c1860.
Select a date range Mar 1859 - Sep 1861 ........ this is in case the registration was slightly out. Don't choose a district in case she wasn't born in Liverpool.

The entry is there (remember mmn didn't get recorded on the register until Sep 1911)

(edit hands off warning removed- Keely's mum tried, but got lost)

We can look to see if we can find her on the 1861 census. We know her father was Lawrence from her marriage record.

Derek in Derbyshire has pointed out that West Derby is in Lancashire. If there was a red faced emoticon, this would be a good place to use it. My fault. Sorry :-0

A useful free site for BMD in Lancashire is http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk

The McCaul/McNulty marriage in 1876 is listed there - go on, have a go :-D it doesn't give full details from the certificate, but does give the place.

1861
Lawrence Singleton
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Singleton
Gender: Male
Where born: Burscough, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire

Household Members:
Name Age
Lawrence Singleton 45 - carter
Mary Singleton 42 born Ince Blundell? Lancs
Henry Singleton 20
Joseph Singleton 16
Anthony Singleton 8
Lawrence Singleton 5
Teresa Singleton 1 <<<< our gel!

Address 5 Boundary Place.
...............

So if Henry is 20, then we are looking for a marriage at least 20 years early. Civil registration was not compulsary at that stage, so it may not be listed. Civil Registration started Sep 1837, so we are at the limits of freebmd.

But you can have a go on Freebmd.

This time, select marriages.
Surname Singleton
First name Lawrence.
Date range Sep 1837 - Dec 1842
County Lancashire

There is one result

2 second 3 digit number is in blue. click on that and it will give you the other name on the same register page.

In this instance, we are lucky as there is only one new name.....there could have been up to 8.

So now you know what Mary, Laurence's wife, maiden name was.

You can get confirmation of this by using the lancashirebmd site.

select the year & Registration District you found on Freebmd,
Singleton for the surname. Leave the first name blank as Lawrence can be spelt different ways.

Got it? Good.

(edit - hands off warning removed. Keeley's mum tried, but got lost)

While you are looking up marriages etc...

1851
Lawrence Singleton
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Singleton
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Burscough, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Town: Liverpool

Household Members:
Name Age
Lawrence Singleton 34 - Carter
Mary Singleton 31
Henry Singleton 9
Mary Singleton 7
Joseph Singleton 5
Alice Singleton 3
John Singleton 1

Living in the cellar of 15 Hunter? St.

All children born Liverpool

1841 - the adults ages are rounded to the nearest 5 or 10

Lawrence Singleton
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Liverpool
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire

Household Members:
Name Age
Lawrence Singleton 25.....carter
Mary Singleton 23
Elizabeth Singleton 1 5 Mo

1841 doesn't give relationships, but we could assume that Elizabeth is their daughter.

Keeley's mum is coming unstuck trying to follow the instructions, so

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
SINGLETON Teresa Ann Liverpool volume 8b page 205 - image unclear, page no may be 208

Marriage of Lawrence Singleton and Mary - parameters Sep 1837-1841

Marriages Sep 1839 (>99%)
Singleton Lawrence Ormskirk 21 323

By clicking on 323 (the page #) it shows the other entries on the page.

Marriages Sep 1839 (>99%)
MORLEY Mary Ormskirk 21 323
Singleton Lawrence Ormskirk 21 323

So Lawrence Singleton, married Mary Morley
.........................

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi

1839
SINGLETON, Lawrence m MORLEY, Mary @ Ormskirk Register Office or Registrar Attended. Records held at Preston.

It could have been a reg office marriage, or the Registrar attended a marriage at a RC church.
..................
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi
1876

MCCAUL William m MCNULTY Margaret at Toxteth Park, St. Matthew Records held in Liverpool
.......................

Please Kaylee's mum, don't send private messages (pm). Put all you info on your thread (the name for all the posts in answer to an original message.) This means anyone checking your thread has all the info. At the moment your thread has been viewed 71 times but only 31 replies including yours, so other people are checking in and will add info as they can.

Some thoughts.
1. Your pm info always seems to come up after it has been put on your thread. Is it stuff you really know?

2. As +++DetEcTive+++ says this is all speculation. We don't know there is a Campbell/Singleton connection.

3. The registration district, West Derby, was part of Liverpool. It is not in Derbyshire so no use asking anything on Derek's thread.

4. I would like to know what the 1911 census says about McCall children. How many had died before the census. From your pm "other siblings are albert and ellen confirmed by family then a robert ,george , emily . and jane or janet if i remember correctly i found them on a site called family search i think. As for everything else you are correct" I would have thought that the name Lawrence would ring a bell. If it doesn't then is the Singleton connection relevant? Those McCall/Campbell births found on freebmd are the only ones for England and Wales after 1911 except for this one.
Births Dec 1941 McCall Margaret C Campbell Wigton 10b 1092

I doubt Margaret was having children in 1941.

It is a coincidence that all the McCall/Campbell births are registered in West Derby or Liverpool. The exact districts your McCall/Campbell family seems to have resided.

I can't find any McCall births for Lancashire on familysearch.org so it must've been another site. I'd be interested to know.

5. Also from a pm, "you have 2 thomas's in 1914 and 1909 i have a catherine in 1909 could he be in 1914" From freebmd it seems that the 1909 Thomas died in 1909 (see my summary) and another child in 1914 was named Thomas. I found a Catherine registered December quarter 1908. If you're looking at baptisms then that was probably done in 1909.

6. Remember the Roman Catholic baptisms are written in latin. I think these are your Campbell births.
Births Dec 1880
CAMPBELL Margaret Liverpool 8b 156

Births Dec 1882
CAMPBELL Kate Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 150

Births Jun 1884
Campbell Mary Frances Liverpool 8b 142


Hope this helps.
Ozi


P.S. +++DetEcTive+++, I suggest you stop putting any more info on the thread until Kaylee's mum has done some researching herself. We have nothing to prove any of our findings so far.

RC bap

Henry Singleton
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1842
Baptism Date: 27 Mar 1842
Parish: St Anthony´s
Father's Name: Lawrence
Mother's name: Mary
godparents W(illia)m Marlew and Mary Blundell

Anthony Singleton
Birth Date: 25 Jan 1853
Baptism Date: 6 Feb 1853
Parish: St Joseph´s
Father's Name: Lawrence Singleton
Mother's name: Mary Morley
Godparents Anthony Morely and Alice Morley......probably relatives of the Mother

???
Elizabeth Singleton
Birth Date: 5 Jan 1855
Baptism Date: 14 Jan 1855
Parish: St Joseph´s
Father's Name: Lawrence Singleton
Mother's name: Mary Mailen....doesn't look right
Godparents John Malow and Jane Malow...........bit of stretch to say its Morley

Mary Singleton
Birth Date: 16 May 1844
Baptism Date: 26 May 1844
Parish: St Mary´s
Father's Name: Laurence Singleton
Mother's name: Mary Singleton
Godparents James Alcock & Anne Morley

Joseph Singleton
Birth Date: 18 Feb 1846
Baptism Date: 22 Feb 1846
Parish: St Mary´s
Father's Name: Laurence Singleton
Mother's name: Mary Singleton
godparents Joseph Blundell & Margaret Morley

thankyou everyone for helping MC CALL and CAMPBELL but i dont think i am any good at this as i am new to computers and dont really get it i have give up OZI and DET a big thanks for trying kaylee's mum

Sorry Ozibird - I had the reply box open to copy and paste the above.

I also have tried to encourage Kaylee's Mum to add to the thread rather than PM. (edit - and she's done it!!)

As you may have noticed earlier, I did try and talk her through using freebmd and http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk, but she found it difficult to follow.