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Thanks again

I have PM'd Joy for the BMD details as I still can not find them, not sure why,

I am 100% sure John had 2 partners (Rose and hannah) and the family always refered to Hannah as Hannah Ceceila Mapp, but I do not think anyone knew she had been married before, however I am sure it is the same Hannah that married Arthur Hague in 1890.

I have Hannahs family going back some way, but never found a trace of her marraige to john thomas even though i searched on th surname Mapp and Hague.

Strange but very confussing :-S

Good chance to be John in 1901, given the occupation compared to 1911:

THOMAS, Richard Head Married M 52 1849 Brass Worker B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Fanny Wife Married F 48 1853 B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, William Son Single M 29 1872 Window Cleaner B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, John Son Single M 25 1876 Cycle Worker B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Emily Daughter Single F 22 1879 Tailoress B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Mary Daughter Single F 20 1881 French Polisher B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Albert Son M 13 1888 B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Lizzie Daughter F 10 1891 B'ham Warwickshire
THOMAS, Clara Daughter F 6 1895 B'hamWarwickshire
CLAY, William Visitor M 27 1874 Plasterer's Labourer B'ham Warwickshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Birmingham

Address: 164, Irving Street, Birmingham County: Warwickshire

What were the names of John & Rose's children according to the family bible?

John doesn't seem to be married to a Rose in either 1891 or 1901 censuses.

Arthur & Hannah in 1891?

1891 England Census
about Hannah C Hague Name: Hannah C Hague
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Arthur Hague
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban
Town: Bordesley
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2404
Folio: 71
Page Number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Hague 30
Hannah C Hague 19
George H Hague 5/12

I agree her married name should be used for 2nd marriage, but what are the chances of another couple with these names marrying in Birmingham? I would get the cert and see what it says.
Jan

The 1911 census says they have been married 9 years, 5 children, 3 living, 2 had died.

1911 England Census
about John Henry Thomas Name: John Henry Thomas
Age in 1911: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Bk 83 Irving St Birmingham
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Cycle Trade Frame Filer
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration District Number: 384
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Piece: 18112
Household Members: Name Age
John Henry Thomas 35
Hannah Thomas 37
Elsie Clara Thomas 8
John Charles Thomas 3
William Henry Thomas 1 8/12

Surely if Hannah had been married to Arthur Hague then her marriage in 1918 should be in the name of Hague and not Mapp?

Although there is this:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1890
Brookes Constance Annie Aston 6d 597
GROOM Vincent Aston 6d 597
Hague Arthur Aston 6d 597
MAPP Hannah Cecilia Aston 6d 597

Hi

My husbands Gran remembers both Rose and Hannah and this is recorded in a bible with his childrens names from both ' wives's as here husband use to visit his half siblings - as John was still still single in 1901 census and Hannah married arthur in 1890

Joy has found marriage of John and Hannah 1918 though hasn't she?
Jan

John's Father's name will also be on the marriage certificate to Rose, but I cannot see a marriage. Do you know when it is believed to have happened, and how did you know her name?
Thanks

Cheers

Hannahs details are correct - her dad worked at Cadburys in Bounville !!

Now for John it is either Richard and Fanny as parents of Edwin and Mary which is why I need the marraige cert,

??

parents: William Hague,? Mary Ann


name: Arthur Cornelius Hague
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 20 Dec 1867
baptism/christening place: ALL SAINTS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
father's name: William Hague
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C07142-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 918919

Rosina Rotheram
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 29 Aug 1869 SAINT THOMAS,?BIRMINGHAM,?WARWICK,?ENGLAND
residence: Warwick,? England
parents: John Rotheram,? Elizabeth


name: Rosina Rotheram
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 29 Aug 1869
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
father's name: John Rotheram
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: K04117-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 817175

Rose Rotherham
England and Wales Census, 1891
birth: Burringham,? Warwickshire
census: 1891 England


name: Rose Rotherham
event: Census
event date: 1891
gender: Female
age: 49
relationship to head of household: Wife
birthplace: Burringham, Warwickshire
record type: Household
registration district: Stoke Upon Trent
sub-district: Shelton
ecclesiastical parish: Stoke Upon Trent
civil parish: Stoke Upon Trent
county: Staffordshire

parents: George Mapp,? Elizabeth Mapp


name: Hannah C Mapp
age: 9
gender: Female
birth year: 1872
birthplace: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
relationship to head of household: Daughter
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Scholar
address: Strutley 1 Bournville
census place: Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341705
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 2945 / 74
page number: 22

Free BMD gives a marriage for Hannah C Mapp and John H Thomas March qr 1918 Birmingham registration district.

parents: Richard Thomas,? Fanny Thomas


name: John Henry Thomas
age: 4
gender: Male
birth year: 1877
birthplace: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
relationship to head of household: Son
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Scholar
address: 6 Windmill Hill
census place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
record type: Household
family history library film: 1341712
the national archives reference: RG11
piece/folio: 2975 / 6
page number: 6

Please helpme I am really stuck

I am trying to find the marriage record between
John Henry Thomas bn 1877 in Birmingham and Hannah Cecila Mapp bn Dec 1871 in Birmingham this would have been around 1908 as their son William was bn in 1909.

Now both of these had been married before, John had married a Rose Rotherham ( who died in 1974) and Hannah had married a Arthur Hague in 1890.

Now, family say that John and Hannah were married ( and I would love to find the Marriage cert so I can find Johns fathers name) and my hubby’s Grandmother who was married to John and Celia’s son William is still alive age 97 and can still remember John and Cecilia and has agreed John had also married Rose,but does not know why they split up.

Can anyone help me out here or was they infact – living in sin!