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Lucy I see from the thread you have been confused about Cedric Thomas Joseph all along and asked that several times ... and nobody has been able to answer that question :-)

the thing is that with only a handful of people ever named Carash ... everyone is trying to investigate -anyone- with that name who it seems -must- be related somehow

the Cedric T J Carash line is the other one that is known to have existed ... as I said go to freebd and just search for the surname Carash with no other details ... he magically appears in 1921 and marries, has three children, dies in 1931, his children Cedric, Peter and Dianna R ( who becomes Rita D ) go on to marry as well

they are the only other Carashes ... Cedric TJ married in Camberwell and died in Southwark ... he has to be related !

is his marriage certificate one of the things you have sent for ? one wonders what his father's name might be shown as

he was 39 years old when he died in 1931 ... so he was born in early 1892 or late 1891 ...

and really that has got to make him Cedric Sheffield in 1901 aged 8 living with Joseph and Jane Sheffield ... who are Emma Georgina Sheffield/Cardash's parents ...


oh and Emma Georgina Sheffield/Carash etc was the witness at Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash's marriage so of course they are related ! and she seems to be his mum, no ?

i have contacted people on here with names carash but no response as of yet, dont know how often people check there messages on here

Also confused with cedric who is he realted to, i thought emmas dad was Joesph sheffield bit confused?

there are 18 people on facebook named Carash :-)

http://www.facebook.com/family/Carash/1

in some cases the name seems to be of middle eastern origin for example but most are not ... there is a lawyer in California named Carash ... some of the facebook names can be seen in the GRO births index, born in Wiltshire or Hampshire

I had certainly wondered too whether you hadn't contacted people with Carash in their trees here at genesreunited

Cedric J Carash born 1921 was the son of Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash and he ( Cedric 1921 ) married in 1945 in Swindon so some of the people you see in trees born after that are grandchildren of Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash

others are children of a Carash and Ritchings marriage ( you will see them if you just search for all Carash events at freebmd, sometimes it is spelled Richens ) and that marriage was a Peter Carash born in 1924 also a son of Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash

Oh i see but Ruby Dorothy constance Carashs mum Emma also used the name Carash,

So do we think that Emma was born sheffield used Cararsh as a stage name say the married Wiilam garner strange how her bdaughter ruby would use it as her maiden name, would have thought she would have used sheffield think thats where we all are getting confused

So are we discounting the Micklewright from this

I have ordered Ruby Dorothys birth certficate hopefully this will give some more clues....

I was reading here a few days ago and hesitating to leap in ... ;)

I don't think "Micklewright Carash" was a person ... I think someone fudged the surname of the father because the parents were not married

I suspect the mother was Carash and the father's surname was Micklewright

I looked around a bit in censuses to see whether there were any Micklewrights in the right vicinity at the right time but didn't see anybody as I recall

I thought it might be useful to see the Sheffield household in 1881, Emma Georgina is the only daughter really old enough to be the mother of the grandchild living with her parents in 1901 and other children born in the mid 1890s


Civil parish: Clapham
Registration district: Wandsworth

Joseph Sheffield 43 fishmonger
Jane Sheffield 40
Emma G. Sheffield 13
Robert D. Sheffield 11
William E. Sheffield 9
James A. Sheffield 4
Margaret G. Sheffield 4
Esther L. Sheffield 2 (later Hester)
Mary A. Sheffield 17


when she married in 1906

Marriages Jun 1906
Carash Emma Georgina Lambeth 1d 455
GARNER William Henry Lambeth 1d 455

I doubt that she had actually been married before ... are you waiting for certificates still ?


I'm confused though ... Maureen says

Jane Sophia Sheffield (sister of Emma G) who married Edward Dash in 1884??

in 1871 the only children in the household I think are Emma and Robert ... where is Jane Sophia in 1871? and how do we know she is Emma's sister ...

Births Dec 1863
SHEFFIELD Jane Sophia Newington 1d 232

Marriages Dec 1884
Dash Edward St. Saviour 1d 104
Sheffield Jane Sophia St Saviour 1d 104

this is her in 1871 ? but I have no sub to see the details

Name: Jane S Sheffield
Birth: abt 1864 - city, Surrey, England
Residence: 1871 - city, Surrey, England

Dash and Carash though, some resemblance

Ruby Dorothy Constance ( I forgot to check the actual name in 1911 ) was an actress as I recall ... Carash may simply be a stage name of some sort if there was theatre in the family ...

nudge

Just to recap on Emma Georgian Sheffield

Who was her mother and father

Have i got this right

Born as sheffield re-married to Carash,
then to someone Micklewright
then to William Henry XVI in 15th April 1906 in brixton aged 38, he was a pattern maker
then to someone Caplin

Does this sound about right can we fill in the other 3 gentleman, only got one marriage struggling to get other 3 men

Any help in clarifying this?

Many thanks

Hi

I have not done search trees i will do that, may help a bit

Do we think Carash has come from another surname and has just been taking through the generations.

Defintly people pop up then disappear maybe alot of name changing has gone,

Thanks for sending those certificates i am just going to check these out and all above information,

Get it all written down and fitted in

Thanks everyone to your help

xx

Just as a PS before I lose the thought again.

Lucy-have you been in Search Trees and tried to contact the other CARASH researchers??

Sorry to all if this has been suggested before.

Maureen

and I was remembering from memory, instead of checking the spelling. ..... grrrrrrrrrrrr


you really would think he would be easy


but he pops up that once, and then that is it!


but then a couple of the children have the surname Micklewright, and then become Carash



but even those with distinctive forenames are impossible to find!


ah well


almost my bedtime!



sylvia <3

Oh lord-

It's Micklewright,Syls! (on that baptism for Claud Albert-poor wee one).
Much easier to find isn't he?.....:-D

I have to admit I was looking for Mic*thwait* a few too may times.

And then Cedric pops up with "Henry Thomas" as his father.

All engineers.of course!!

Ah well.

I've sent Lucy scans of the other marriage certs.

Maureen <3

Maureen


it's really frustrating


someone turns up once ................ on a certificate either as a bride/groom/baby or witness or father


and then never again.


I mean, Micklewhite Carash should be easy to find. Shouldn't he??????????



But I must admit, that I had not noticed Jane Sophia Edwards!





sylvia

Lucy-you're doing as well as you can with this lot!!

Just keep in mind that some -er-"paternity issues" might never be solved.

Did anyone send you the image for Cedric T J Carash's marriage?
Emma Georgina's (now she's Caplin!) signature is pretty identifiable. (you can compare it with the marriage scan that Mel sent,right?).

Also-and this is more to the "tandem workers" out there...
;-) ;-)

Did anyone notice on the Garner/Carash marriage cert-the witness Jane Sophia Edwards? She's gotta be the Jane Sophia Sheffield (sister of Emma G)who married Edward Dash in 1884?? Again...same signature.

I've tried to find her again and again just in case one of that lot is with her. Nada.

Maureen

I am trying to work out where the Carash fits into this

Enies mum and dad were

Ruby and Dudley Gordon

Rubys Mum and Dad were Ruby Dorothy Carash and ?

Ruby Dorothy Carash mum and dad were

Emma Georgina Sheffield (Carsh) and ?

Cant put the carash in no where can fit the garner and Sheffield in but not the Carash who is the Man with the Name Carsh?

Ive just ordered Ruby Dorothy Carash Birth Certifiacte 1895 Croydin 2a 241 Apr,May,June to give some ideas, i do want to find as much information on this lady as i have found a 1911 of what i think is her stating she was an actress at 16 in Croydon and i also know she married Gustav H N De Becker later in life in 1935 wandsworth, we believe this man to be wealthy and of status but i dont know how to check this any ideas please?

I did see that at the left hand side of the marriage certificate but did not know what the handwritting said so thanks for that i could see that it was crossed out but could not make out what it said underneath

I am having trouble linking Emma to Ruby Dorothy trying to find Ruby Dorpthys mum and Dad now but finding it very hard but the certficates have given alot of concrete information that i can know work on

Any suggestions how i can link Ruby Dorothy to Emma?

I've just checked that marriage certificate for Emma Georgina Carash .... it's on ancestry, although her name is mis-spelled Carasl ................ I've sent in a name change


Joseph Sheffield was a Poulterer


There is actually a notation in the margin of the page.

Both Willaim and Emma were initially shown as Bachelor and Spinster respectively, and the those were crossed out and replaced with Widower and Widow.

The notation says:- altered by A.J.(surname hard to decipher) 17 April 06

Presumably someone noticed the wrong marital status, and the Parish Clerk or someone made the alteration in the Register.




sylvia

Flick and Rootgatherer posted the information on that marriage between Emma Gordon nee Carash and William Garner on the first page of this thread

Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)

Carash Emma Georgina Lambeth 1d 455
GARNER William Henry Lambeth 1d 455

But, no birth reg'n for Emma on freebmd....and no marriage for an Emma G to surname Gordon


and then Rootgatherer found the information:-

The marriage that Flick posted.

William Henry Garner, 64, Widower, Pattern Maker, 23 Ballater Road Acre Lane, f. William Garner dec.
Emma Carash, 38, Widow,23 Ballater Rd., f. Joseph Sheffield, Poulterer

Witnesses Joseph Sheffield and Jane Sophia Edwards



followed by Emma's next marriage:-

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)

Caplin Henry Garner Camberwell 1d 1635
GARNER Emma G Caplin Camberwell 1d 1635



sylvia

Hi all,

I ahve recieved 2 of my certificates today my nans birth certificate from scotland and her mums certificate.

There is a lot of information on them, so here it is:

Enie D N forder (my Nan)
Born 30th May 1942 in ellow aberdeen
Mother Ruby Georgina Gordon (Carash Maiden Name)
Father John James Forder RAF based in Peterhead
Parents married 17th December 1939 Camberwell
Lived 83 Hope Street Peterhead


Ruby Georgian Gordon (My nans mum)
Born 18th August 1914 in Brixton borogh Lambeth
Mother Ruby Dorothy Gordon formally Carash
Father Dudley Gordon, Consulting Engineer
Lived at 147 Dulwich Road think kerne Hill, Brixton
No marriage mentioned but mother and father have the same name
Birth was registered on 9th October a lot later but there was a war on so properly the reason
Ruby Georgina Gordon had a brother Dudley born one year before her in 1913, so he must have took his father first name

There is no mention of a marriage but on the birth certifiacte it does not state anywhere the marriage should be mentioned nor does it ask for the parents age....

So now trying to find a record of Dudley, and try and go back one more generation to Ruby Dorothy Gordon formally Carash and her partner Dudley

Also mel has sent me an e-mail with a marriage certificate of someone we think could be releated here is the information

April 15th 1906
St matthews Church, Brixton
Emma Georgina Carash aged 38 widower
married
William Henry Garner aged 64 Widower
Profession of William Pattern Maker
Father of Emma is John Sheffield profession Poulter
Father of Henry William Garner, at time of marriage dead
lived 23 Ballath Road, London

Emma would have been born in 1868 an William in 1842

Emma must have been previosly married and must have been a Carash as she does not give her fathers name as her maiden name she uses carash

Now need to link all these women and work out all this information i am waiting for one more certificate which is Ruby and John Forders marriage certifiacte, then i will get more as and when i need to make sure i am following the right family now time for a night of investigating

xxxxx

Great!!


I look forward to seeing those details



sylvia
xx

thanks for that i think the certfiicates are the main key to answering lots of questions i will post alll the deatils when i recieve them and hopefully it will be EUREKA or BINGO

:)