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Just to keep you up to date. After a lot of help on this board I think I am on the correct track. Kucinta is a real star. I think I kept doubting too much when up against the odd year being out.

I do think May was an error because I know for sure it was Ethel Mary with the same siblings.

So much fits into place....Wednesbury is the big link.

Sure hope after all this they DO turn out to be Elisabetta's line! :-S


Perhaps the link was Ethel Mary, the 'May' of census 1911?

Births Sep 1908
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Dickinson Ethel Mary W. Bromwich 6b 939


Can't find a birth for a 'May', or even a Mary.

Maybe a little certificate purchasing might be in order, but I hope Elisabetta can fill us in when she comes back to the thread. :-)

PM from Elisabetta in regards to my question about putting Sarah and John in her tree -


"I haven't but I will. Doesn't seem to want names without birthdates and I'm not sure these are my line?? Should I put them in anyway?"


I asked her how had she got back to thinking they might be her line??

William Rose in census 1851:

ROSE, William Head Married M 51 1800 Lab Gas Tube Manufactor Adenton Warwickshire
ROSE, Ann Wife Married F 51 1800 Wednesbury Staffordshire
ROSE, Charles Son Unmarried M 19 1832 Lab Gas Tube Works Wednesbury Staffordshire
>>>ROSE, William Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Lab At Iron Works
Wednesbury Staffordshire
ROSE, Mary Ann Daughter F 10 1841 Scholar Wednesbury Staffordshire -

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Piece:
2027 Folio:
161 Page:
18 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
Wednesbury Municipal Borough:

Address:
High Street East, Wednesbury County:
Staffordshire

Susannah Penn in census 1851?

JEVON, William Head Widower M 48 1803 Inn Keeper Employing 1 Man
Wednesbury Staffordshire
JEVON, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 House Keeper
Birmingham Warwickshire
PENN, Susannah Servant Unmarried F 16 1835 House Servant
Wednesbury Staffordshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2027 Folio:
163 Page:
23 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
Wednesbury Municipal Borough
Address:
High Street East Market Place East, Wednesbury County:
Staffordshire

Susannah Penn in 1841.

Father Joseph a blacksmith:

PENN, Joseph M 30 1811 Staffordshire
PENN, Sarah F 30 1811 Staffordshire
PENN, John M 10 1831 Staffordshire
PENN, Sarah F 8 1833 Staffordshire
PENN, Susanah F 6 1835 Staffordshire
PENN, Mary F 4 1837 Staffordshire
PENN, Joseph M 2 1839 Staffordshire
PENN, Elizabeth F 0 (1 months) 1841 Staffordshire

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Piece:
984 Book/Folio:
3/24 Page:
13 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
Wednesbury Municipal Borough:

Address:
Monway Field, Wednesbury County:
Staffordshire

William Rose in census 1841?


ROSE, William M 40 1801
ROSE, Ann F 40 1801 Staffordshire
ROSE, George M 15 1826 Staffordshire
ROSE, Caroline M 13 1828 Staffordshire
ROSE, Charles M 9 1832 Staffordshire
>>>ROSE, William M 6 1835 Staffordshire
ROSE, Mary F 0 (3 months) 1841 Staffordshire
WHITEHEAD, Ann F 70 1771 Staffordshire
WHITEHEAD, Joseph M 35 1806 Staffordshire

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Piece:
984 Book/Folio:
6/17 Page:
27 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
Wednesbury Municipal Borough:

Address:
Square, Wednesbury County:
Staffordshire

Possible marriage for William Rose and Susannah, parents of Mary Ann Rose who married Jacob Amos:


Marriages Dec 1852
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MASON Eliza W. Bromwich 6b 845
>>>Penn Susannah West Bromwich 6b 845
>>>Rose William West Bromwich 6b 845
YARDLEY William W Bromwich 6b 845
Yardley William West Bromwich 6b 845

There is a submitted IGI record for the baptism of an Elizabeth Stone at West Bromwich :

27 AUG 1820 West Bromwich, Stafford, England

Parents Isaac Stone and Hannah.

I can't find any record for the birth/baptism of David Dickinson c 1815 in the same area.

The IGI has an extracted record for the marriage of Charles Bissell to Elizabeth Lawrence:

Marriage: 09 MAY 1836 Saint Marys, Handsworth, Stafford, England

Handsworth comes under West Bromwich registration district, so this seems very likely.

Martha Bissell and parental family in census 1861, living in Birmingham, where she married John Cornelius Dickinson Sr.

NB, transcribed Bassell, but Bissell on the actual image:

Census 1861:

BASSELL, Charles Head Married M 45 1816 Gun Lock Maker West Bromwich Staffordshire
BASSELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 42 1819 Walton Staffordshire V
>>>>BASSELL, Martha Daughter Unmarried F 16 1845 Steel Pen Maker
London Middlesex
BASSELL, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 14 1847 Scholar London
Middlesex
BASSELL, Joseph Son M 12 1849 Scholar London Middlesex
BASSELL, Charles Son M 10 1851 Scholar West Bromwich Staffordshire
BASSELL, Matilda Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar Birmingham
BASSELL, Thomas Son M 3 1858 Scholar Birmingham

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Piece:
2155 Folio:
73 Page:
36 Registration District:
Birmingham

Civil Parish:
Birmingham Municipal Borough:

Birmingham Address:
97, Moland Street, Birmingham County:
Warwickshire

Birth of Martha Bissell, probable wife of John Cornelius Dickinson Senior???

Births Sep 1844
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bissell Martha Whitechapel 2 519

Possible marriage for David and Elizabeth Dickinson????:


Marriages Mar 1840 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AVERN Catharine W. Bromwich 18 535
BARTON Hannah W. Bromwich 18 535
BROOKES John W. Bromwich 18 535
>>>DICKENSON David W. Bromwich 18 535
HUNT Ann W. Bromwich 18 535
Mumford Henry West Bromwich 18 535
ROGERS William W. Bromwich 18 535
>>>Stone Elizabeth West Bromwich 18 535

John Cornelius Dickinson Senior with parental family in census 1851:


census 1851:

DICKINSON, David Head Married M 36 1815 Filer West Bromwich Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Elizabeth Wife Married F 31 1820 West Bromwich Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Lydia Daughter F 11 1840 Scholar West Bromwich
Staffordshire
>>>>DICKINSON, John Cornelius Son M 5 1846 West Bromwich
Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Mary Daughter F 1 1850 West Bromwich Staffordshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2026 Folio:
341 Page:
5 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
West Bromwich Municipal Borough:

Address:
New Street, West Bromwich County:
Staffordshire



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BIRTH OF JOHN C DICKINSON SENIOR?


Births Sep 1845
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DICKENSON John Cornelius W.Bromwich 18 545


MARRIAGE OF JOHN CORNELIUS SENIOR AND MARTHA?

Marriages Dec 1868
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bissell Martha Birmingham 6d 246 Dickinson
John Cornelius Birmingham 6d 246

On another tack, John C Dickinson born Birmingham c1875, in Wednesbury in 1891 with his parental family:


census 1891

DICKINSON, John C Head Married M 45 1846 Cast Iron Moulder West Bromwich Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Martha Wife Married F 46 1845 London
DICKINSON, Martha H Daughter Single F 19 1872 Laundress Manchester Lancashire
>>>>DICKINSON, John C Son Single M 16 1875 Coachwork Filer
Birmingham Warwickshire
DICKINSON, Rose H Daughter Single F 12 1879 Scholar Wednesbury
Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Joseph C Son Single M 9 1882 Scholar Wednesbury
Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Thomas W Son Single M 7 1884 Scholar Wednesbury
Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Harry R Son Single M 5 1886 Scholar Wednesbury
Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Cecil B Son Single M 3 1888 Wednesbury Staffordshire
DICKINSON, Ethel B Daughter Single F 0 (4M) 1891 Wednesbury
Staffordshire

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Piece:
2275 Folio:
49 Page:
13 Registration District:
West Bromwich

Civil Parish:
West Bromwich Municipal Borough:
Wednesbury

ADDRESS
2, 4 Court, Ladburys Lane, West Bromwich, Wednesbury County:
Staffordshire

My gut feeling is that 'single' Jacob in 1871/1881 is actually the Jacob who was married to Mary Ann Rose, but you might need to get their marriage cert from 1877 that I posted, to confirm both his occupation and that of his father, along with his father's name.

Also, although a gas tube worker in 71/81, that Jacob's younger brother Lot worked for a blacksmith, as did YOUR Jacob in census 1891.

I really feel you need to get that marriage cert (and possibly Sarah's birth cert as well).

Unfortunately there are two possibilities for Sarah's birth ref:


Births Dec 1877
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMOS Sarah West Bromwich 6b 883

and

Births Jun 1878
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amos Sarah Ann W. Bromwich 6b 892


So I really would be tempted to go with the marriage cert first.

Jacob Amos is sufficiently distinctive a name for it to be unlikely two of them of similar age would both be living in or near Wednesbury.

Thanks for your help! As I see it there are 2 possible Jacob's and Sarah's?

I'll plot it out tomorrow but I think this is where I get stuck.... :-S

Just using freeBMD at this site for Births, marriages and deaths:


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

This is the only FreeBMD birth I could find for Jacob Amos. It ties in with the birthplace of gas tube Jacob as Wolverhampton in 1871.


Births Dec 1854
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amos Jacob Wolverhampton 6b 340