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Thanks. I will double check everything.

Marie

Marie


do please try to double check what we have found .... we're only members like yourself, but ones who love to help others

we're always liable to make mistakes!


so it is only wise to try to double check before adding all this to your tree.



Glad you finally found the Community Boards ................ they've been here almost since the start of GR. I've been helping since 2004



sylvia

Hi again,
Yes you did go well past the question you asked. A big thank you for doing that.

I will read through all the information you have found and add to my family tree.

Been on genes for years but never knew about this site. I will definately use it again if I get stuck.

Once again, thank you all for all your help.

Marie

so William Royle marrying Alice Prestwich in 1845?


good possibility!



and confirmed with mmn!


great find, mgnv!




sylvia

ah, then this one after all !

Marriages Jun 1845
Prestwich Alice Ashton &c 20 36A
Royle William Ashton &c 20 36A


oops you said that already :-)

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1846
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
ROYLE Alfred Pilkington Bury PRESTWICH PILK/8/33

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
ROYLE Sarah Pilkington Bury PRESTWICH PILK/11/2


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1845
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ROYLE William PRESTWICH Alice Tonge, St Michael Rochdale CE25/1/12

I think in fact, we've gone way past the question originally asked :-)

yes, I made a mistake on that posting 3 or 4 back


Alfred was born ca 1846, not 1836

and Sarah was born ca 1849, not 1838


and that would fit in with that Manchester marriage ................ I had spotted that one, and wondered about it.



sylvia

but I meant for the one who died 1843 :-)

the only one in 1841 is 'our' Alice ... or at least our first Alice ... ?

I have lost track of what we're looking for ... a second marriage of William Royle to an Alice ?

1851 again


edit ! I had the wrong couple ... this is 1851

William Royle 50 b.ca 1801, Unsworth, Lancashire, Farmer of 8 acres
Alice Royle 34 b.ca 1817, Unsworth
Kay Royle 20 Farm Work
Alfred Royle 5
Sarah Royle 2


a possible couple ( lots of names in the list )

Marriages Sep 1846
Hughes Alice Ellen Manchester 20 628
Royle William Manchester 20 628

and no Alice R*yle of appropriate age in 1851 and subsequent censuses

that is interesting and it certainly fits, although all children born in the 1830s would be hers ( that gap isn't so very huge and there could have been miscarriages, stillbirths ... )

edit

and there is no other Alice R*yle that age-ish in Prestwich area in 1841

This death from beta.familysearch intrigues me ....... the area is the same one shown for some of the children


England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 for Alice Royle

Name: Alice Royle
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 24 Sep 1843
Burial Place: Stand, Prestwich, Lancaster, England
Death Date:
Death Place:
Age: 41
Birth Date: 1802
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B02378-5
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1751508
Reference Number: cn 1102 p 138




sylvia

I questioned earlier, after posting the 1851 Census, whether there had been a second marriage


There is a huge gap between Kay, b. ca 1831, and Alfred and Sarah born between 1836 and 1838


Add that to the difference in age between Alice in 1841 and Alice in 1851 and all later censuses.




sylvia

oops, you sneaked the second marriage question in there

here are the parents of the 1815 Alice Kay in 1841

Name: Hannah Kay
Age: 64
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1777
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Blackley

George Kay 61
Hannah Kay 64
Mary Kay 31
Susanna Kay 23
Richard Kay 14
Frances Kay 6


same as the Ryle/Royles in 1841 ... multiple households of them together :-)

actually it could have been a late baptism, they weren't unheard of

other baptisms to that couple William 1812 Susannah 1817 Lois 1821 in Blackley

a George and Hannah Kay also had a bundle of children baptised in Blackley 1834 to 1841 ... possibly a son George Kay who married a woman with the same name as his mother, another fine ancestral trick

the only remotely similar marriage showing at familysearch

pouse: Hannah Eastwood

groom's name: George Kay
bride's name: Hannah Eastwood
marriage date: 19 Apr 1802
marriage place: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
indexing project (batch) number: M00546-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 483187

if that were the one it would be possible there were births before 1812 ...

Interesting

Alice is shown as born ca 1806 on the 1841 census

but 1817 on the 1851 Census


and both ages seem to be correct on the image vs the transcription



so ..................



did William marry twice?







sylvia

NO NO NO

that can't be Alice Kay's baptism


or else she was married when she was only 11 years old!!!!





sylvia

I wonder if this was Alice Kay's baptism


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Alice Kay

Name: Alice Kay
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 26 Mar 1815
Baptism/Christening Place: Blackley, Lancashire, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: George Kay
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Hannah
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04826-8
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 559152
Reference Number: p 90




sylvia

yes, it really does explain that unusual name of Kay .


.... very unusual for that time, even if it had been given to a female.


and especially unusual as a male name!





sylvia

surname Kay, excellent, that name had to come from somewhere !

reminds me of some ancestor's brother or some such of mine with a riduculous name like Green Fields ... Green was a maternal surname of course, but still ...