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on the brighter side I think I have ruled out the couple who possibly married in 1907 as parents of the children born in Ulverston ... at great effort ...

they didn't ...

Marriages Sep 1907
NICHOLSON Peter Ulverston 8e 1803
STEELE John Edward Ulverston 8e 1803
STEPHENSON Susannah Ulverston 8e 1803
WILKINSON Edith Bray Ulverston 8e 1803

Edith Bray Wilkinson born 1887, in 1901 she is in Ulverston reg dist, born Urswick

1911

STEELE EDITH 1888 23 Ulverston Lancashire born Urswick
STEELE JOHN C 1875 36 Ulverston Lancashire
STEELE EMILY T 1909 2 Ulverston Lancashire

( although John's middle initial is out and I can't identify a birth either way, there is no other John Steele and Edith marriage at all possible )

so in 1907 Peter Nicholson married Susannah Stephenson although I can find no further trace of them ... so he is not the father of the children born in Ulverston

I would like to try to put this to bed ... by suggesting that the Nicholson Rigby couple is far more likely these people


Births Dec 1903
Rigby Phyllis Romford 4a 589

Births Mar 1904
NICHOLSON Edward Dixon W. Ward 10b 773

Name: Phyllis Nicholson
Birth Date: 7 Nov 1903
Date of Registration: Mar 1987
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Ulverston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 1
Page: 676

Name: Edward Dixon Nicholson
Birth Date: 6 Dec 1903
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1974
Age at Death: 70
Registration district: Ulverston
Inferred County: Lancashire, Cumbria
Volume: 1
Page: 0536


when working on a theory it is every bit as important to look for information that disproves it as it is to look for information that supports it


given the 'Edward D' and the location Ulverson that Edward could be related to the Nicholson Wilkinson children born in Ulverston 1910-1920 ... but that still does not mean they are connected with Kate Ward Wilkinson and a birth certificate for one of the children is still needed for that purpose

David, can I just ask if it hasn't been asked already that you stop putting personal details about people who may be living and may be entirely unrelated in any event in the thread ? everyone here has access to freebmd and can see the same things you see

I don't see a death up to 2005 for the person born 1935 whom you are naming so the assumption must be that they are living

putting people's personal information on the internet where it can be found by search engines like google ( information in indexes like at freebmd is not found by search engines ) without their consent is not fair and it is against the rules

we ( I at least ) just don't see the point in continuing to trace people who may be unrelated, based on a set of assumptions and guesses, without getting some confirmation that they are related ... that would be the birth certificate for Edward Nicholson mother Wilkinson to see who the parents were

all of us have had to get certificates for our own research and while we all of course have to come up with possibilities and theories in order to find answers, we have to get certificates to confirm them, and you can't expect us to keep paying attention to something that has reached that stage ... there is nothing more anyone can say about your theory than 'yes that is a possibility so you need to get a birth certificate to see whether it is a fact'

you need to edit the first two posts on this page, and the one right above this post, to remove the identifying personal information

I had copied your info in my post without thinking and I will edit it accordingly

Tried running backwards from Ernest Nicholson - Victorian ideal of naming your first son after your grandfather - looked him up in Ancestry 1930 -40 BMDs. Found one under births Ernest Nicholson born at Epping, Essex in 1935 - parents Nicholson and Rigby. Looked them up in marriages - they married in Epping 1929. This would put Edward Nicholson at only 17 when he moved from Ulverston to Epping ???? Possibly unlikely - but if anyone has more info please get in touch.
David Wilkinson

just to clarify, your message was


I am trying to trace the above person born at Ulverston, Lancs. ie. trying to find him a wife. So I typed in Ernest Nicholson (the name of his father) in the BMDs 1930 -40. One turns up - Edward Nicholson married Rigby in 1929 [age info edited out] at Epping, Essex, they then had [name] in [year]. Can you throw any light on this ????


I don't understand this, where are you searching, is it somewhere that shows the father's name for marriages ? I have no idea where that might be for marriages that late, are you saying some record actually gave Ernest as the father's name for Edward D Nicholson married 1929 and said he was 17, or is this still guesswork ?

there were several Phyllis Rigbys born 1911-12 but none of them anywhere near Epping, does what you are looking at give a father for her too?

sorry but you have confused me ... and I think I'm not the only one

you just seem to be going about this by making assumptions and following them forward instead of finding out what you need to know, i.e. were any of those people children of Nicholson and Wilkinson, and -then- tracing them forward if so

hi David, I got your private message, would you stick to posting in the thread ? it is much too confusing to be shuttling back and forth between them :-)

I am having to get a job done at my computer but I'll take another look later

basically you know the only way you are going to find out whether any of the people you are looking at are 'your' people is to get certificates ... a birth certificate to match parents, a marriage certificate to match fathers ... there simply is no point in guessing

the only purpose the guesswork might serve is if you can match someone in family trees here who might have information to confirm or deny a connection with your people

I had a hard time figuring out why this was all so difficult ...

Nicholson Wilkinson births in Ulverston

Births Dec 1912
Nicholson Edward D Wilkinson Ulverston 8e 1239
Births Sep 1914
Nicholson Ernest Wilkinson Ulverston 8e 1358
Births Dec 1915
Nicholson Nellie Wilkinson Ulverston 8e 969 ( who died )

( obviously many of the other Nicholson Wilkinson births can be ruled out as they were much to close to one of those births to be to the same parents )

if you think they went to Hexham then also

Births Dec 1917
Nicholson Grace Wilkinson Hexham 10b 626


but as rootgatherer points out the Ulverston births are more likely to belong to the ( possible ) couple who married there in 1907

there is very little point in anyone trying to trace those children unless it is certain they are the children of the correct couple ! and only a birth certificate for one of them will tell that

I would actually suggest getting Kate's death certificate first to see whether it was signed by a child


I don't see an Edward (D) Nicholson marriage to Bond in Fylde ... there are only 3 Edward D Nicholson marriages in the index, 1929 Epping and then 1970 and 1971


also would you be careful about posting personal details about people born after the late 1920s, they may well still be living and in all likelihood they are not related anyway

Civil Registration event: Marriage
MarriageFinder: Edward D Nicholson married Phyllis Rigby
Name: NICHOLSON, Edward D
Registration District: Epping
County: Essex
Year of Registration: 1929
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Rigby
Volume No: 4A
Page No: 863

David, you're going to have to buy certificates to be absolutely sure.
Have you tried Search Trees at the top of the board?

Tried working backwards in period 1930 - 40 looking for Ernest Nicholson -
one comes up in Epping, Essex, 1935. Parents Edward Nicholson and Rigby married in Epping in 1929 (they were only 17 at this stage). Could this be my third cousin ?
David Wilkinson

Possibly Edward Nicholson's wife was Rigby, although they married in 1929 in Epping, Essex - 17 year olds. From this marriage came Ernest Nicholson born 1935 (in Epping). Guessing - Ernest Nicholson fairly unusual name - northern - going out of fashion in 1935 Epping
David Wilkinson

Sorted out where Ernest and Kate went - to Ulverston - and they had Edward Dawson Nicholson 1912 - 1997 (born and buried in Ulverston). Dawson Nicholson was the name of Ernest's great grandfather born in Hexham 1798
Ancestry BMD gave me this on his Death in 1997 - Edward Dawson Nich.
Can't find a wife for Edward yet - possibly Bond in Fylde.
David Wilkinson

Thanks everyone for your help.
David Wilkinson

The Ulverston children could be from this marriage?

Marriages Sep 1907
NICHOLSON Peter Ulverston 8e 1803
STEELE John Edward Ulverston 8e 1803
STEPHENSON Susannah Ulverston 8e 1803
WILKINSON Edith Bray Ulverston 8e 1803


If you do a search on FreeBMD for marriages in the possible time scale to match those births you will see there were several Nicholson / Wilkinson marriages in the area. Those births you have listed could be the issue from any of those marriages!

Grace Nicholson born 1917, Hexham has mother's maiden name Wilkinson. But, of course you could have checked that yourself.

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicholson Grace Wilkinson Hexham 10b 626

Further to your PM, I don't particularly favour any of the births. I still think that I would buy Kate's death certificate in the hope that the informant was a child of the marriage.

Looks like Nellie born in 1915 didn't survive infancy?

Name: Nellie Nicholson
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1915
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1915
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Ulverston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 1042

Could this be Ernest's death?

You could buy the death certificates to see who the informant was.

Wthout buying the birth certificates you cannot be sure who the parents were so your tree will be based on guesswork rather than facts.

Name: Ernest L Nicholson
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1963
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Ulverston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 648

Could Grace Nicholson b.Oct to Dec 1917, at Hexham, Northumberland, be the child of Ernest Nicholson and Kate Wilkinson ? I have learned from research that Ernest's mother came Frances came from Hexham b 1847.
David Wilkinson

You can go to FreeBMD and look for the births. The mother's maiden name is given. The first one, Edward 1912 has mother's maiden name Wilkinson.

Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicholson Edward D Wilkinson Ulverston 8e 1239

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Is there anyway I can tell whether from Ernest Nicholson marrying Kate Wilkinson in 1908 in Newcastle, the following emerged
Edward Nicholson b Oct - Dec 1912 Ulverstone
Nellie Nicholson b Oct - Dec 1915 Ulverstone
John Nicholson b oct - Dec 1914, Mutford
John Nicholson b Jul - Sept 1915 Holbeck
George Nicholson b Jul - Sept 1916 Holbeck
Grace Nicholson b Oct - Dec 1917 Hexham
Kenneth Nicholson b Jul - Sept 1918 Sheffield
without buying the certs.
David Wilkinson

No children born before the 1911 census.