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Hello Maureen,
I'm waiting for a reply from the lady who submitted the birth certificate of BERTHA born 1896 in Leigh, I have asked how she came about that her BERTHA was the one in the Institution and the one we have been "following"............

Many thanks for your "luck" Maureen
John

OK.

DO wonder whatever happened to the Bertha we've been following,though!! (She of the perfect birthdate.)

Best of luck to you,John!

Maureen

Had a chat with a very old inlaw relative last night regarding Bertha ...
Apparently they, many years ago, did a search between the years 1892 and 1896 for England/Wales.............No luck...
They did a search for Ireland through Belfast, same thing, no luck... THEY suggested she may have been born in Eire....
Then she said quite confidently that Bertha was ADOPTED.....
Whether she is right or not, that seemed to be the last kick in the teeth..

I've dicided to 'draw a line' under dear old mother's past - I, [with many thanks to some really excellent members on this Forum who have helped a great deal], have decided to call it a day.
There are other members of the Family who need looking up.....so here we go..................
John
:-)

Thanks Mavis - guess that shoots that theory down in flames....

One more question to all.... Does Eire have any BDM open to us ??
john :-(

no adoptions till 1926-- could be done privately before that

Mavis

Just a thought !
Had Bertha been adopted, would there have been any records for adoptions during the periods of 1895 and 1901..
John :-S

Mike,
as you say "Curiouser and Curiouser".......I think I have more chance of finding Alice in Wonderland's parents than Bertha's......I sometimes wonder if on the original birth certificate of Bertha, if someone had made a 'slight 'error' by putting a 6 instead of a 5....
I think I will concentrate on the Middlesborough area of 1900 - 1905, as even now is still seems strange to move a child all the way from Manchester / Wigan to 'boro, and also they have to be on the 1901 census somewhere................. John :-(

Hi Maureen,
That was what I was secretly hoping for, although the fact she was not placed into the Home until 1905 and not 1901 as I originally thought, was a good help, I was hoping just for that litle bit more regarding her parents, especially her mother... She. I thing is the 'stumbling block'.....
John

The birth cert already obtained is for Leigh ( Wigan area) , yet the census says born Manchester.

Curiouser and curiouser !

Hi John,

Well,it's certainly interesting that the Archives gave the exact same birthday as the Bertha for whom you have the cert! Were they not able to "flesh out" her circumstances a little more? ie who admitted her and why? Nothing about her parentage at all???

Maureen

I see what you mean....
birth 1896...
When she left the Home she would have been 15 not 16..
When she married she would have been 23 not 24.......
When she died she would have been 57 not 59....
Looking at the differences it would appear that her DOB would have been 1895

Yes, it would but unfortunately Bertha Ball is still Bertha Ball in 1911, so it's not her.

Something doesn't add up.
If archives confirm Bertha's birthdate as Februaury 1896, then ALL of the ages on census, marriage and death records are wrong.

Hi Mike- not quite with that one - Is it Bertha Ball born 1896.
Ellen Ball and Edward Walsh married 1902,..
Will that make Bertha Ball now Bertha Walsh...
Logical..
John

I wonder ?????????

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1896
Ball Bertha - Stockport 8a 91
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1902

WALSH Edward - BALL Ellen
Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registar Attended Manchester



1901
Bertha Ball - 5 - born Chesh Stockport - residing Cheshire Stockport


EDIT :

Noooooooo

This one appears in 1911

BALL BERTHA - F - 1896 -15 - Stockport Cheshire


**Will leave it here for elimination

Hi Mavis,
Many thanks message... I think Bertha and her family were the originators of the phrase -"Oh what a tangled web we weave".... They must be up there rolling around.......

Cheers Mavis

John if you look further back up your thread you will see Edward and Ellens daughter is still with them 1911

as are the other Bertha Walsh's

looks as if your Bertha may not have been "Walsh" but taking a wider search for her you should locate her.

Its great you have a birth date for her

Mavis

HI ALL....
got word back from the Teesside Archives..... Not exactly brilliant, but is did change one or two things, and I'm grateful for that,,,,

Bertha was certainly born - 15th February 1896...
She was placed in the Home 1st June 1905..[not 1901 as I had thought].
She left 13th April 1911..

One ot two of the members queried why a young was sent all the way from Manchester to Middlesborough...
Just thinking about it, I assumed that it had all happened in Leigh etc.,
But had she been born there, and the family moved to the Middlesborough/Cleveland area later, then that may be the reason why she was a Middlesborough Home..
But they still couldn't give a wife for Edward Walsh....
The archives did mention a Edward Walsh and Ellen from Chorley, but didn't commit them as the ones I am looking for...
They have to be on the 1901 census somewhere...Now to start searching again....
Many thanks everyone for all your kind assistnce over the last two weeks...
John,

Cheers Mike

Fingers crossed

I've just been in touch with Teesside Archives and given them the 'particulars' regarding Bertha - they'll get back in touch with me by the week-end. No promises from them but it's worth a go...