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btw....where would I get a copy of the marriage cert?

Erin,I only know Elizabeth(known as Lizzie Lakes)was from Leighlinbridge was because her grandson,Joe Curran(son of her eldest child,Charles)and also her g/daughter,Catherine(Kathleen)daughter of Elizabeths' second child,John(my late father-in-law)told me.

interesting was your reference to Dunlecky....I was looking into grave inscriptions for Curran,in the area.

found the ones below fro Dunlecky Cemetery Inscriptions.,Carlow...don't know if there's a connection to our Currans.

Erected by Michael Curren of Knocklonagad in memory of his father,Michael Curren,who departed this life the 14th Oct.1829.aged 69 yrs.

In loving memory of my mother d.Dec.16th 1903(66) also father,brothers and sisters.Erected by daughter & sister,Kate Curran.

RootsChat.com is amazing i've found some cousins on that site when i was asking if anyone knew anything about my great great uncle hugh and he was born in Carlow. Go for it you never know who you may find
:-) :-D

Elaine....This is what you know so far...

Michael Curran married an Eliza.Lakes...(no one can find the marriage ) you have definate proof from the headstone that Eliz.was nee Lakes.
You have Eliz.coming from Leighlinbridge...
How do you know that..?
Leighlinbridge Town was in part In Idrone East and part Idrone West..the Civil Parishes (for Registration Purposes) differ.
.
Idrone East...Civil Parish ...Dunleckny (Dunleckney) spellings differ depending on time frame.
Idrone West...Civil Parish...Wells.

Michael and Eliz.lived Boherduff..(1901/1911)....Idrone East...CP...Dunleckny.

The "Lakes"..that show on the 1901/1911 Census appear to be in the Old Leighlin area and Seskin/Seskinryan....CP..Old Leighlin
Seskinryan CP is Dunleckny.

Given that Lakes is not a Carlow name I would suggest the Lakes families listed are connected in some way to Eliz.
Thomas aged 70 and Bridget aged 70..Seskin Upper.

All the above ares are in the RC Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin.

I had considered and checked "B"lakes...but nothing coming up for that surname.

re the Charles Curran b.1891....I was speaking to Joe Curran,his son a few weeks ago!He will be 90 next year.

He told me his father was Charles,his g/father Michael and his gt g/father Patrick!...as he is getting on in years,I don't know how reliable his memory is.

He also said his sister died young and is buried with his g/father[maybe the Brigid,buried with Michael and Elizabeth?]

I also found the marriage of Michael and Elizabeth on Ancestry late last night...when I clicked on Michaels to look at possible spouses,I found Eliza Lakes....but when I clicked on Elizabeths,I found no mention of Michael Curran,so thought perhaps it was the wrong one!

thankyou chrissiex,betty and maura....without you,i would have been up the proverbial creek,without a paddle! :-)

Chrissiex.....as far as i know,Leix is pronounce Leeks(as in Leixlip[leekslip])

the place pronounced Leash is spelt Laois.....my g/daughter is called Loise,(pronounced Leasha)

oh good grief all because somebody didn't enter the year in the Mormon records ?!

applause Maura <3


Elaine there you go you have got to get that certificate now because it will give Elizabeth's father's name

John ( Leix ) Lakes ... or Thomas? :-D

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
about Eliza Lakes Name: Eliza Lakes
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1890
Registration district: Carlow
Volume: 3
Page: 289 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101256

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
about Michael Curran Name: Michael Curran
Registration district: Carlow
Volume: 3
Page: 289 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101256

more evidence to support my LEIX / LAKES theory !

the parents of these children

Michael Leix 1875 Carlow
Thomas Leix 1871 Carlow
( I have put info about their deaths as Lakes below )

were Thomas LEIX and Bridget Byrne


here is the 1901 census for the family

Residents of a house 3 in Seskin Upper (Ridge, Carlow)

LAKES Thomas 70 Male Head of Family
Lakes Bridget 70 Female Wife
Lakes Michael 25 Male Son
Lakes Kate 7 Female Grand Daughter


Thomas and Bridget LEIX and their son Michael 1875 are now LAKES

and I think this is son Thomas 1871

Residents of a house 8 in Barnaghagole (Old Leighlin, Carlow)

Lakes Thomas 40 Male Head of Family
Lakes Mary 41 Female Wife
Lakes Bridie 15 Female Daughter
Lakes Thomas 13 Male Son
Lakes John 11 Male Son
Lakes Mary 9 Female Daughter
Lakes Levia 7 Female Daughter
Lakes Patrick 4 Male Son R Catholic
Lakes Julia 2 Female


and here is more proof ... a son of Thomas LEIX and Bridget ( Byrne ) ... John LEAKES

name: John Leakes
gender: Male
birth date: 28 May 1867
birthplace: Carlow, Ireland
father's name: Thomas Leakes
mother's name: Bridget Byrne
indexing project (batch) number: C01179-4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Leix and Eliza (Moran) parents of William and ( I am sure ) Elizabeth Lakes must have died before 1901 ... and I will guess that these are their deaths

name: Eliza Lakes
registration district: Carlow
event type: DEATHS
registration quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1892
* estimated birth year: 1832
age (at death): 60
volume number: 3
page number: 271
digital folder number: 4200679

name: John Lakes
registration district: Carlow
event type: DEATHS
registration quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1905
* estimated birth year: 1825
age (at death): 80
volume number: 3
page number: 247
digital folder number:


... of course it is possible that Thomas Leix and Bridget ( Byrne ) were the parents of Elizabeth ...

Bridget Lakes born 1827 died early 1911 Carlow
Thomas Lakes born 1818 died 1913 Carlow
Michael Lakes born 1875 died 1954 Carlow
Thomas Lakes born 1871 died 1931 Carlow

I would think John Leix 1825 and Thomas Leix 1818 were brothers


Elaine do you agree with me now ? :-D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is a little explanation of changes to Irish name spelling


http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~homespun/spsnames.html

With English rule also came English bureaucracy. Clerks, who were required to record Irish names for tacation or other purposes, often replaced the names with their English equivalents, or simply with English names that sounded similar. To give just three examples among hundreds, O Mordha was often changed to Moore, Cullane (O Coilcain) became Collins, and at least some O'Hagans had their names changed to Hog, which was easily taken for a variant spelling of Hogg, an English surname.

Ever since, a large percentage of the Irish people has had its origins thrown into confusion. Did a family named Collins, for example, descend from Cullanes who had had their Irish name changed to Collins? Or were their forebears Englishmen who had traditionally borne the name and perpetuated it unchanged after settling in Ireland? The case is similar for Moores, Hogs, Smiths, and countless other families.


a clerk would have been looking at a name on a page ... not how it was pronounced

so a clerk looking at the name LEIX would not see 'Leash' they would say hmm, that looks like LAKES and 'fix' the name

that is my theory !

hi Clover ... that is the census for the household in Leighlinbridge that I posted a few posts above on this page, and the Eliza Lakes marriage back on the other page ... couldn't find a Curran marriage to match either ...

just above on this page I also posted several LEIX births in Leighlinbridge one of which I strongly suspect must be the William Lakes in the 1901 census ... it was a very small village if you read my other posts on this page ... and William Lakes is exactly the age William Leix would have been ... born in Sept 1868 aged 32 in early 1901 ... and there are just no Lakes births or marriages in Leighlinbridge or in the censuses

the Leix births in Leighlinbridge

Mary Leix 1865
William 1868
Kate Leix 1875

are all younger than Elizabeth would have been, Elizabeth was born before civil registration started

also the Charles Curran birth you posted ... I posted that some time ago and strongly suggested that Elaine get that birth certificate to see what it says about the mother's name ... probably it says Lakes but I would love to know just in case it says Leix !

I would say that Margaret ( Lakes or Leix )Smullens's son Charles is named for her husband Charles Smullens ... I think Margaret's and Elizabeth's father was John Leix and their mother was Eliza Moran ... which would explain why the oldest girl ( probably ) was Elizabeth or possibly Eliza if that Eliza Lakes marriage is her

so now we know that we all get the same results anyway :-)


edit
I just did a search at the old familysearch and found that William Leix 1868 was a twin

ame: William Leix
gender: Male
birth date: 22 Sep 1868
birthplace: Carlow, Ireland
father's name: John Leix
mother's name: Eliza Moran
indexing project (batch) number: C01408-1

name: John Leix
gender: Male
birth date: 22 Sep 1868
birthplace: Carlow, Ireland
father's name: John Leix
mother's name: Eliza Moran
indexing project (batch) number: C01408-1

the only other children it finds are still Mary 1865 and Kate 1875

Could not sleep so started searching the Family name Lakes, Carlow and found this. Don,t know if it is any use to you or not.
1901 Census
Smullen(s) Charles (head) Born Dublin.
Smullen(s) Margaret Maggie wife Born Carlow.
Smullens Maria aged 7 years born Carlow
Smullens Charles aged 5 years born Carlow <<<<<<<<
Smullens John aged 3 years born Carlow
Lakes William Brother aged 32 years born Carlow <<<<<<<<
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marraige
Charles Smullen(s) Carlow 1893 July-Sept Volumn 3 Page 297

Margaret Lakes Carlow 1893 July-Sept Volumn 3 Page 297
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are Elizabeth?? Margaret and William brother and sisters. Thought that Elizabeth Curran and Margaret Smullen(s) might be sisters, as both have first sons called Charles. Just an idea.
Betty.

Don,t know if these help.

Birth
Charles Curran
Carlow
July-Sept
1891
Volumn 3
Page 319
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Marraige.
Eliza Lakes
Carlow
Oct-Dec
1890
Volumn 3
Page 289.
Sorry cannot find a corresponding Michael Curran though.
Regards,
Betty.

Don,t know if this is any good but try it anyway.

Birth
Curran Charles
Reg. District
Carlow.
Year 1891.
July-Sept.
Volumn 3
Page 319
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marraige

Eliza Lakes
Reg District
Carlow
year.
1890
OCT-DEC.
VOLUMN 3
Page 289

Cannot find corresponding Michael Curran/Currin though. Sorry.
Betty.

ah yes, I was looking at you saying 'Lakes not Leix' ...

so there is an inscription on her gravestone that gives her name before marriage

and I hope when you think about it you will agree that since there is no record of any Lakes family in the area and there are records of the Leix family ... since and the person who is William Lakes aged 32 in 1901 in Leighlinbridge a town of 646 people is the same age as the William Leix born in 1868 in Leighlinbridge ... the best theory at this point is that the Leix family changed the spelling of their name to Lakes ...

now in fact I see that the place name Leix is pronounced 'leash' so my theory may not be perfect and may be complete out to lunch :-) but I still expect there was an English influence there that caused the change and the name and the family are the same .......... more work to do of course !

i did put ,at 21.27pm,"the inscription says Lakes not Leix",as you asked me.

the actual inscription reads:-

MICHAEL CURRAN. BOHERDUFF.died 23rd.Jan.1922.Aged 73yrs.
his wife ELIZABETH nee LAKES.died 17th Aug.1928.Aged 65yrs.
Their grand-daughter BRIGID.died 17th.April 1942.Aged 16yrs.

Elaine, the 1901 census says Lakes too, I am pretty sure that if you say 'Leix' out loud you will be saying 'Lakes' ... hopefully Eringobragh1916 can help with that a little

there is no Leix in the 1901 or 1911 census, I think the English spelling took over by then

someone here at genesreunited has a Leix from Ireland in their tree born in 1085 :-D


if I ask for the third time will you say ?

is Elizabeth's birth name on her gravestone ?


you said

now know that Michael Curran,(Boherduff) DID marry Elizabeth Lakes,from Leighlinbridge.
have a copy of their grave in Newtown.,Co.Carlow.
Michael died 23rd Jan.1922,aged 73 and Elizabeth died 17th August.1928,aged 65.

if her birth name Lakes isn't on her gravestone how do you know now ?

the population of Leighlinbridge in 1861 was 1245, in 1901 it was 646 ... I think that since there are no records of any Lakes families there and there are records of two Leix families ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leighlinbridge


Leix is also a place name unfortunately so it makes it hard to do internet searches

the inscription says Lakes,not Leix....but tracing family,i find names change many times!

what do you suppose the chance is that the name was LEIX ?

I just did a dumb thing ... worked too many hours today ... I did a search at familysearch that I meant to be for

surname LAKES
place Leighlinbridge

with no other information

only I forgot to put the surname in

so I got 4 pages of births in Leighlinbridge in the 1860s and 1870s

and here is one

name: William
gender: Male
baptism/christening place: 449, LEIGHLINBRIDGE, CAR, IRE
birth date: 22 Sep 1868
birthplace: Leighlinbridge, Car, Ire
* father's name: John Leix
mother's name: Eliza Moran
indexing project (batch) number: C70136-9
system origin: Ireland-VR
source film number: 101177

what do you think ??

there are a couple of other kids there

Kate Leix 1875
Mary Leix 1865

and also
with parents Thomas Leix and Bridget Byrne

Michael Leix 1875 Carlow
Thomas 1871 Carlow

and a couple of other Leix-s that only say Ireland


I wonder whether this is William 1868 in the 1901 census with a sister

Residents of a house 6 in Ballyknocken (Leighlinbridge, Carlow)
Smullens Margaret Maggie 29 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic
Smullens Maria 7 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Smullens Charles 5 Male Son Roman Catholic
Smullens John 3 Male Son Roman Catholic
Lakes William 32 Male Brother

Elaine Elaine Elaine

I started with a question

Elaine are you saying that Elizabeth's birth surname Lakes is on her gravestone ?

could be,but living relatives don't know if he had or not.

in passing....my son-in-law is 18 yrs older than mi daughter,and she's his first(and only!)wife.

i think irish men were late in marrying,years ago....they liked being looked after by the mammy.

even if i put michael curran in to search,it still says no results