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Ellen

You posted two years ago and were advised to send a PM

Steph is clearly no longer interested in this thread

I have a Ambrose Taylor born 1844 on my tree, his parents were Henry Taylor & Martha Blackham she was born 10/1/1820 Baptisted 30/1/1821 Wirksworth

1851 census it has staying with WILLIAM BLACKHAM & MARY a Ambrose Taylor aged 6 years he was a Nephew born in Derby
1861 WILLIAM & MARY are living at New Bridge, Wirksworth,he is a 59 year old Nailor.Boarding with them is AMBROSE TAYLOR aged 17 a Helper at the Tape Factory & HENRY GRATTON aged 30 years a Coal Miner
1871 WILLIAM & MARY are living at Wash GREEN WIRKSWORTH, he is a 69 year old Nailor.living with them is their nephew AMBROSE TAYLOR aged 25 years a Tape Weaver
William Blackham (married to Mary Clark ) was Martha Blackham's brother

Ellen,

This thread is more than 2 years old so Stephanie might not see your post. You could try clicking on her name and sending her a private message. If she still has the same email address then she will be notified by Genes that she has a message from you.

Kath. x

Stephanie I have a William Blackham born 27/11/1801 Wirksworth married Mary Clark 5/3/1829 Wirksworth.
William had a sister Martha born 10/1/1820 who married a Henry Taylor in 1843 at Belper who would be Ambrose's parents.
Williams parents were Ambrose Blackham born 1778 & Ruth Wigley born 14/11/1779 Duffield.
Regards
Ellen

Thanks Perchino - that's really helpful. I've looked at the website & there's lots of other useful historical information about Wirksworth, too.

Steph

This is an invaluable site for any records/ancestors for Wirksworth, Derbyshire:

www.wirksworth.org.uk/

If you compare the details you have gleaned from the Census Returns with the surname section you should be able to verify your findings.

Here he is in 1851 on their records of the Census:

#002---Bolehill---[Wirksworth]---
W615a William BLACKHAM Head M 48 M Nailor Belper
W615b Mary BLACKHAM Wife M 52 F Lace worker Alderwasley
W615c Ambrose TAYLOR Nephew 6 M Scholar Derby

and 1871;

#7---Wash Green---[Wirksworth]---
W796a William BLACKAM Head M 69 M Tailor Belper
W796b Mary BLACKAM Wife M 73 F Alderwasley
W796c Ambrose TAYLOR Nephew U 25 M Tape weaver Derby


Birth record:

Name Ambrose Taylor
Year of Registration 1844
Quarter of Registration Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District Derby
Registration County Derbyshire
Mother's maiden name
Volume Number XIX
Volume Page 494

Thanks Kath - I think that may be the one...I can check with Stan's neice (Elsie Taylor's youngest daughter) - she may be able to confirm this date. Stan has a son (Neville) who I could possibly track down, too.

Steph

Possible death for Stanley (age 7 on the 1911 census):-

Name: TAYLOR, Stanley
Registration District: Derby
County: Derbyshire
Year of Registration: 1990
Month of Registration: January
Date of Birth: 27 October 1903
Volume No: 6
Page No: 603
Reg No: 190

Kath. x

Update...oooh...thanks...I've only just seen Flick's latest posts (they have only just uploaded, with my earlier response, which is why I responded again - I thought I'd not sent the previous one properly).

Thanks for the info on Ambrose, Flick...I'd been looking at the birth records and had noted the incongruous birth dates for census returns 1851 and 1861.

I've also been trying to get some other birth records (not for Ambrose/Mary) that just do not appear to be there - but you've explained why, if there was no penalty up until 1875, since the ones I was interested in were earlier than this.

Thanks for the info.

I've ordered a marriage cert for Ambrose and Mary Allen, which might help - I am hoping to be able to chase of them down a bit further back.

I expected to find anomalous age/YoB details and spelling variations, but was thrown by an apparent change of status/surname within the census records, with Ambrose going from nephew to lodger to nephew (all as Taylor) and then to son (as Blackham) and then as Head (once the Blackhams had both died) and a shift back to Taylor. My original query was to see if this sounded plausible, since the other explanation was that I had found the wrong Ambrose Taylor pre-1901.

The answer seems to be that these sorts of errors are not unusual and reliability of census data depends upon all sorts of factors, not least what was reported by the householders to the recorders at the time of the census.

I'm sure I'll be back with other queries (I'm looking at some other deceased relatives) and I am grateful for the help.

Thanks to all for responding.
Stephanie

From the IGI.....which is FREE.

And it's an "extracted" record.......so can be relied on

AMBROSE TAYLOR

Father: HENRY TAYLOR

Marriages:
Spouse: MARY ALLEN
Father: JOSEPH ALLEN

Marriage: 21 FEB 1880 Duffield, Derby, England

Husband Age at Marriage: 26
Wife Age at Marriage: 20

So the birth reg'n looks promising

In 1851 and 1861, his birth is given as much earlier....and there is a birth record to tally with those entries.

As there were no penalties until 1875 for not registering biorths.........there may simply not be a cert

Thanks again Flick - I think I'm getting back on track. I've looked at the marriage register for Ambrose Taylor and for Mary Allen, who was his likely wife.

I'll get hold of the marriage cert for Ambrose and Mary. I'd like to chase Ambrose (and Mary) back a bit further.

I've been looking for Ambrose Taylor's birth record - his estimated age is a bit of a moveable feast from the census records, but I've got a couple of likely birth record candidates to check out.

I expected to find errors in recorded ages in the census records, but I was surprised to find a change of status and surname (from nephew to boarder to nephew to son, complete with change of recorded surname), but there you go...it appears I have much to learn...

I hope the full 1881 census info (which you didn't mention) combined with the bmd info I provided, will convince you...........

Name: Ambrose Blackham
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Spouse's Name: Mary Blackham
Mother's name: Mary Blackham
Gender: Male
Where born: Wirksworth, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Wirksworth
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street Address: North End
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Tape Weaver Manuf

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Wirksworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3419
Folio: 8
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Blackham 72
Ambrose Blackham 30
Mary Blackham 22
My.Eliz. Blackham

Births Mar 1881 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TAYLOR Mary Elizabeth Belper 7b 629

1891

Name: Ambrose Taylor
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Taylor
Gender: Male
Where born: Derby, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Wirksworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Wirksworth
Town: Wirksworth
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England


Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Wirksworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2750
Folio: 57
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Ambrose Taylor 38
Mary Taylor 32
Mary E Taylor 10
William Taylor 7
Hubert Taylor 4
Harry Taylor 1

Right....now that we have accurate info about Elsie's birth year, it is fairly obvious that Ambrose was her father.......

So tell us what you would like to know about Ambrose

Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allen Mary Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<<<
Jebb Isaac Belper 7b 734
Taylor Ambrose Belper 7b 734 <<<<<<<<<<
WAIN Ellen Belper 7b 734

Thanks Kath - and I apologise to everyone - in particular to Flick and AnnofGG - for supplying this incorrect info.

Elsie Taylor (my grandmother) was 2 in 1901 and 12 in 1911 (census data)

Her father was Ambrose Taylor (from 1901 census data, bc1851)

Elsie married Edgar Staton in 1923 - I have seen the register but have yet to get hold of the marriage cert. My mother was Elsie and Edgar's oldest daughter.

Elsie's youngest brother (Stanley, 7yo in 1911 - census data), lived in the same cottage (in Wirksworth) where he and his (Taylor) family had lived until his own death, sometime in the 1990s (have yet to chase up the exact date). Stan lived there in later years with his wife and son.

I know I still have loads to do on this...I am only at the beginning...and that's before I start to chase down my WWI Grenadier Guard grandfather on my paternal side...

I'll go and get on with it...

Thanks to all,
Stephanie
:-D

AMBROSE BLACKHAM Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 16 APR 1834 Wirksworth, Derby, England

Death: 04 MAY 1834

Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JONATHAN BLACKHAM Family
Mother: ANN


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.