Find Ancestors

True...plus a few others

So you are you happy that Lilian J E Cole is now not connected to this family?

It is mentioned here but as I said earlier she died in 1913 anyway so could not be Judy's mother

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0132607/bio

jax

Yes, got after I typed that. Jane Birkin. As could be expected, some of those trees are the same Birkin family as the Judy Gamble ones.
Paul

Lilian Jane Emily Cole is nothing to do with this family

No I meant the singer/actress daughter of Judy

jax

Do you mean Lillian Jane Emily Cole?

I am glad we have been able to help you a lot quicker finding this one than it took to find Kate.

Such a shame how pregnant/unmarried women were treated back then, but glad it worked out well for you.

I cannot see how that birth cannot be her now....if you do get it (which I hope you will) could you come back and let us know.

There are also 9 with jane in their tree?? if you wanted to contact them?

jax

Yes Jax, he is noted in my adoption records as proprietor of a theatre in Grantham and a playwright, all of which fits. He would have been 57/8 and Kate was 27. Fascinating eh!
I have letters from National assistance and even the Nottingham police chief of the time getting involved in my care and with John A Cambell's name and address being recorded.
Quite Dickensian, my mother was 'on the street' and had three attempts at suicide during her pregnancy with me. I had a very fortunate adoption a year later and have had a very good and prosperous life since.
I have written to the other Judy Gamble tree holders asking for their records to support Judy Campbell's birth. I note that they only have the widely circulated dates, not the GRO records. Also no parents recorded, and one site belongs to a serious genealogist, going back some700 years. I have had one reply asking for more info.and referred that person to this thread.
As you thread researchers tell us, "get the certificates to prove the record!"
Thanks again.........Paul :-)

So did it mention that he had something to do with the theatre in Grantham on your birth records?

Now you mention Kate Turner I do remember your threads. So John Arthur Campbell would have been a fair bit older than her

jax

JAX...Thank you once again for your efforts to tease out this apparent discrepancy.
You are much more experienced in this field and I do appreciate that you get the thing much nearer to certainty. It is frustrating that the media have used Judy Campbell's birth date so widely that her family seem to have accepted it.
You have done previous research for me on a Kate Turner. (Which now all completed and answered has been deleted.) I recently obtained my adoption records which have been in a file since 1936. I now have contact with living cousins, children of the elder sister of my mother Kate. The John A Campbell of this story is named by my mother in my adoption records as my father.(not on the birth cert). So it is possible that Judy Campbell is a half sister, hence my interest in her actual parentage.

I found this about the couple who married in 1910

Lilian Jane Emily Cole1
F, #417830, d. 24 December 1913

Lilian Jane Emily Cole|d. 24 Dec 1913|p41783.htm#i417830|Reverend Arthur Raggett Cole||p41783.htm#i417829||||||||||||||||

Last Edited=11 Dec 2010
Lilian Jane Emily Cole was the daughter of Reverend Arthur Raggett Cole.2 She married John Arthur Gamble, son of Sir Josias Christopher Gamble, 2nd Bt. and Isabella Sanderson, on 21 July 1910.1 She died on 24 December 1913.1
From 21 July 1910, her married name became Gamble.
Child of Lilian Jane Emily Cole and John Arthur Gamble
1.Robin Arthur Norman Gamble+2 b. 6 Feb 1912, d. 1981


So I really think IMD ought to get their facts straight before they start printing what someones birth name was plus the names of their parents.

I also see there are 5 people with Judy Gamble born 1916 in Grantham in their trees?? which as there was not a birth in that name, nor were there any births for a Judy in 1916 anywhere in the country.
Has this family been researched properly at all by the tree owners?

There are no female births between Gamble and Cole or Campbell and Cole.

I cannot see any other birth than the one you have been given as being her. Fulton being her mothers maiden name makes it even more likely to be her. I really do not think there is anything more I can find to convince you that Mary Campbell born Grantham 1916 is the person you are looking for.
The 1911 census for John Arthur Gamble in Grantham says he has been married 7 years (one year out) which would tie in with the marriage to Mary Alice Worger as per the other 1911 census with a son Derek being born in Grantham in 1910, she also says married 7 years.

jax

Judy married in to the Birkin family in Grantham, Dec 1943. I have asked if that tree owner has a GRO record of the birth of Judy. All the media repeats the 31 May 1916 date but GRO Records do not find this for any of the names that she could have, except the MMN Worger. Interesting that there was an Anne Maria Fulton married Richard Worger in 1871, and that is the 'stage' name of Lillian Cole.

So I would now say that Mary Campbell born 1916 as per the details you have been given is the correct birth.

Judy was probably added later because it sounded better for her acting career

jax

1881
Name: Richard Warger
[Richard Worger]
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anna M. Warger
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Margaret
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 18 Palace St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Coachbuilder

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St Margaret Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 119
Folio: 20
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Warger 33
Anna M. Warger 32
Margarite A. Warger 8
Sydney R. Warger 6
Edith R. Warger 3
Mary A. Warger 1
Elizabeth Curtis 24

This is Mary Alice Worger's parents marriage so this is where the Fulton comes from

Marriages Sep 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fulton Anne Maria St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 690
Worger Richard St Geo H Sq 1a 690

So the John Arthur Gamble I found in 1911 is not her father then although he had the correct occupation in the correct area.

Maybe your tree contact can shed some light on this then?

I have just found some trees on ancestry that have the same info that I and Vera have given you.

Mary Judy GAMBLE (CAMPBELL)

Birth 31 May 1916 in 7.Welby Gardens, Grantham, Lincolnshire, England
Death 6 Jun 2004 in 21. Old Church Street, Chelsea, London, England

If you do not subscribe to ancestry it maybe worth your while taking out the free 14 day trial and contacting the tree owners

www.discoverstwulframs.org.uk/


CAMPBELL, John Arthur St Michael Chapel, attached to Organ case Husband of Mary Campbell [Note: Father of actress Judy Campbell]
CAMPBELL, Mary St Michael Chapel, attached to Organ case Wife of John Arthur Campbell {Note: Mother of actress Judy Campbell]

(from above link, Memorials List, St. Wulfram Church, Grantham)

Chris :)

solution of Judith Mary Gamble's GRO birth record still not found.
A review of the work so far still needed
Thank you

I have to open this up again.
I have a tree contact that has the father of Judy as Arthur Gamble married to Lillian Cole (Mary Fulton) as mentioned above.
Marriage 1910 JAS Kingsotn Surrey 2a 923
Judy Mary Gamble b. 1916 but I still cannot find a birth record that fits this marriage. All the publicity advice on Wikipedia tell us this but
I still need help to confirm the GRO birth record to this marriage.
Please look at the results again and try for a solution.
Thank you

Oh dear, I have had feedback from a tree access that gives credence to the Lillian J.E.Cole (Fulton) marriage/ John A Gamble 1910 JAS Kingston Surrey 2a 923 and that Judy changed her name to Campbell on becoming an actress. Any further confirmations?

I'll take that, thanks both of you.