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I wonder if this could be William's death?

88 in 1916 would mean he was born 1828


Deaths Sep 1916 (>99%)

McCarroll William 88 Holborn 1b 484



sylvia

Murray

you posted:-

"The death cert for 1917 I found in Toronto listing her age as 76 is either the wrong age reported by her son, or I got the wrong Catherine McCarroll."


I THINK you might have the wrong person!


There are 3 Public Family Trees on ancestry for William McCarroll and catherine Cody


Son Joseph McCarroll was buried in Canada:-
7 Mar 1931 Prospect Cemetery, Toronto, Ontario

BUT Catherine seems to have died 1913 in Surrey, England according to all 3 trees

and this is on www.freebmd.org.uk

Deaths Dec 1913 (>99%)

McCarroll Catherine 74 St.Olave 1d 169



and this is on the 1911 Census

HOUSEHOLD MCCARROLL CATHERINE F 1829 82 St Olave (Bermondsey) London

In the same household are:-

HOUSEHOLD MCCARROLL BRIDGET F 1865 46 St Olave (Bermondsey) London
HOUSEHOLD MCCARROLL JAMES M 1869 42 St Olave (Bermondsey) London



I did this using the free search ..... I do not have access to any further on that census, but someone else may be able to check it for you, and see whether this really is Catherine Cody




sylvia

Re the above


if this is her on the 1861 Census, then she was underage at her marriage!

1861 Census

Name: Catherine McCarrell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William McCarrell
Gender: Female
Where born: St George in The East

Civil parish: Southwark St George
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: St George Southwark
Sub-registration district: Kent Road

William McCarrell 25 b.ca 1836, Scotland, Currier
Catherine McCarrell 24
Jane McCarrell 2 b.ca 1859, Bermondsey, Surrey
William McCarrell 2 MO b.ca 1861, Southwark
James McCarrell 15 b.ca 1846, Scotland, Brother, Currier's Apprentice
Ellen McCarrell 18 b.ca 1843, St George in the East, Visitor


Born 1837, would mean she was 19 when she married in 1856

stretching the truth a little!


sylvia

of course,


Catherine could equally well have lied to the vicar on her marriage


and said she was "of full age" when she wasn't!



that was also not unusual!


especially if parent might not have given permission to marry to an "minor"



sylvia

Murray


it is not unusual for information on death certificates to be incorrect.


after all, it is information as known to the informant .................. and people often don't know, or have not been told the truth!



The birth date and month are usually much more likely to be accurate than the birth year, for example.


I usually reckon that the only things you can trust on a death certificate are:-

date of death
place of death
cause of death
name of doctor
name and address of informant


I've seen:-

incorrect name(s) for deceased .......... misspellings, second name missing or added, surname wrong

wrong age

wrong marital status, or wrong name of spouse


etc
etc



I'm not surprised by anything now!!




sylvia

Thanks Sylvia...

If "Of Full Age means over 21" then my original birth date of c1839 is indeed wrong. with her marriage in 1856 then she had to be born 1835 or earlier. So the birth year of c1829 that Jax found in the 1851 census is likely correct.

The death cert for 1917 I found in Toronto listing her age as 76 is either the wrong age reported by her son, or I got the wrong Catherine McCarroll.

Murray

from the 1851 Census

Name Age
Richard Cody 50 b.ca 1801, Ireland, Tailor Journeyman
Catherine Cody 45 b.ca 1806, Aldgate, Middlesex
William Cody 19 b.ca 1832, Aldgate, Tailor Journeyman
Catherine Cody 22 b.ca 1829, Aldgate, Domestic Servant
Joseph Cody 16 b.ca 1835, Ireland
Ellen Cody 11 b.ca 1840, Whitechapel, Middlesex
James Cody 9 b.ca 1842, Whitechapel

Address:- 39 Cable Street


In 1861

Name: Richard Codey
Age: 67
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1794
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Codey
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: St Andrew Holborn
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: West London
Sub-registration district: West London South

Richard Codey 67 Tailor
Catherine Codey 56 b.ca 1805, St Georges, London, Tailoress
James Codey 16 b.ca 1845, St Georges, Son, Machine Assistant
William Codey 9 b.ca 1852, Algate, Middlesex, Son



sylvia

More information from that marriage for Catherine Cody that Jax found ............. I looked at the actual image of the certificate

Name: Catharine Cody
Spouse Name: William Mccarrel
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 Nov 1856
Parish: St George in the East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Richard Cody >>>Tailor
Spouse Father Name: William Mccarre


from the image:-

William
Of Full Age
Batchelor
Occupation:- Mariner
Address:- 2 Plough Alley
Father occupation:- Tanner (I think!!)

Catharine
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 4 Wapping St


Witnesses:- William Cook (his mark) and Ann Cambell (her mark)


Theyw ere married by Licence



Of Full Age means over 21




sylvia

Thank you, Jax.

You scored a "triple-header" for me.

New info on 3 of my 2nd great grandmothers thay I had never seen before.

Greatly appreciated.

Time for bed.
It's almost 2am here in Canada.

Where the heck are you?!!?!.

Murray

Parish Records Collection - marriage
Day: 25

Month: Oct

Year: 1830

Groom Surname: Goodridge

Groom Forename: John

Groom Notes:

Bride Surname: Hibberd

Bride Forename: Sarah

Bride Notes:

Parish: Martin

County: Hampshire

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 25

Month: Sep

Year: 1808

Son/Daughter: Daughter

Forename: Sarah

Surname: Hibberd

First Parent: Arthur

Second Parent: Lucy

Notes:

Parish: Martin

County: Hampshire

There is a birth in whitechaple in 1839 so that could well be her and the census is wrong it is strange that her age is listed out of place also they are normally in desending order

jax

Hey Jax, you're amazing!

I just finished writing you a reply about Cody & I see another post from you.

That's the first I've known about the family of Matilda Jacobs.

Much appreciated!

Murray

Marriages Sep 1849 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacobs Matilda Tiverton 10 393
SKINNER Thomas Tiverton 10 393

will give her fathers name

Wow, this is great.
It sounds like the right person, but, yes, she seems older than I thought.

I got a copy of the birth certificate for the eldest daughter, Jane McCarroll from the GRO. It shows Jane McCarroll born August 5, 1859 at 15 Elm St., Bermondsey. Parents were William McCarroll and Kate McCarroll, formerly Cody. So Catherine would have to be born at least as far back as1839.

And I have a copy of what I believe is her death cert from Toronto, Ontario dated July 30, 1917. It lists Catherine McCarroll, born London England died a widow in Toronto aged 76, informant James McCarroll. That would make her birth year about 1841.

It's a little puzzling.


Murray

?? 1841
Name: Matilda Jacobs
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Gender: Female
Where born: Devon, England

Civil parish: Tiverton
Hundred: Tiverton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Tiverton and Dulverton
Sub-registration district: Tiverton
Household Members: Name Age
William Jacobs 60
Susan Jacobs 40
Matilda Jacobs 13
Susanna Jacobs 10
Sarah Jacobs 8
Emily Jacobs 2 MO

??

1851

Name: Catherine Cody
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Richard Cody >>>Tailor
Mother's name: Catherine Cody
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Aldgate, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Piece: 1547
Folio: 359
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Cody 50
Catherine Cody 45
William Cody 19
Catherine Cody 22
Joseph Cody 16
Ellen Cody 11
James Cody 9


Looks like she was older than you thought or they got her age wrong but deff says 22 and working as a servant but could well be a mistake

Name: Catharine Cody
Spouse Name: William Mccarrel
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 Nov 1856
Parish: St George in the East
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Richard Cody >>>Tailor
Spouse Father Name: William Mccarrel

I seem to have hit brick walls trying to trace my 2nd great grandmothers - Cody 1839, Hibberd 1809, Jacobs 1829.
I have their maiden names and info on their lives; but have not discovered their birth parents.

Catherine Cody was born c1839 in Middlesex, London, England.
She married William McCarroll November 24, 1856 at St George in The East, London.
Catherine and William had 5 children including Jane(1860) , William(1862) , Joseph(1864) , James(1866) , Charles(1869).
She died July 30, 1917 in Toronto, Canada.

Sarah Hibberd was born c1809 in Martin, Hampshire.
She married John Goodridge of Damerham, Wiltshire on December 25, 1830 at Martin Church, Hampshire.
Sarah and John had at least 8 children including Mary Ann(1831) , Ellen(1833) , Henry(1835) , Jane(May 19, 1838).
Sarah shows up in a number of censuses.
She died 1895 in Winterbourne Gunner, Salisbury.
I even have a great old photo of her.

Matilda Jacobs was born about 1829 in Tiverton, Devon, England.
She married Thomas Skinner around September 1849 in Tiverton and they had either 6 or 7 children including Frank(1853) , Henry(1858) , Emma(1859) , Walter(1862) , Sydney(1864) , Arthur (1867).

Any suggestions or help on how to find the names of their parents would be much appreciated.

Murray Skinner