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Actually, looking back at my notes and alI the census records with the various spellings of Tubess I had found the 1871 with Benjamin and Mary but had discounted it at the time because it put Mary as being born in Middlesex.
There is no way I could have got to this stage without everyones input. I am not very good at lateral thinking so I'm not sure I would have found all the collateral evidence. Hopefully I will get better at piecing together little snippets of information here and there as the years go by.

If it doesn't mention an X, that means she did sign her name. But, unfortunately, the GRO have sent you a copy which they've written out themselves instead of a photocopy of the original.

I wish they wouldn't do that as it's so handy to have the original signatures, plus they sometimes put down the wrong information. They did that for my gt.grandparents which sent me off on the wrong track for years. It wasn't until I saw the original on Ancestry that I realised their mistake.

Thanks Chrstina,
Mel has a copy of the certificate so I have asked her to take a look. If I contact the GRO would they send me a copy of the original certificate?

Heres Marys 2 brothers in 1871...

ANSELL, Benjamin Head M 21 1850 Essex VIEW
ANSELL, Frances S Wife F 20 1851 Lincolnshire VIEW
ANSELL, Alice S Daughter F 0 1871 Essex VIEW
ANSELL, Robert Brother M 16 1855 Essex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
1631 Folio:
44 Page:
88

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
West Ham Enumeration District:
15 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
West Ham Municipal Borough:
Address:
Shirley Street, West Ham County:
Essex



Nicky

Something is nagging at me. Would'nt Mary have been slightly worried that John Tubbs might find out if she had married George bigamously? She must have been quite brazen about it to have spent three weeks waiting for the banns to be called.

George and marys weding took place in Croydon...she had lived with John William Tubbs in the Westminster area...what distance is that 10 miles maybe?.....

Communications /Newspapers/no Telephones etc etc wern`t what they are today...i`d imagine you could go and live in the next town and people may not know where you were....


Nicky

Bigamy was surprisingly common at that time, due to it being almost impossible to obtain a divorce.

I don't know if you can ask the GRO to send a copy of the original certificate. I've not tried.

I'm not sure if the London Metropolitan Archives hold the records for Croydon now. They might have the original on microfilm. You could try ringing them on 020 7332 3820

1911 census is signed by Mary Scivier.

Have you got a copy,if not PM me your e.mail and I will send it to you.

Maryb

Thanks girls,
Thanks for the info on the Metrolpolitan Archives. They re-redirected me to the Surrey History Centre. Their phone line is extremely busy and I haven't been able to get through yet. I have also been trying the GRO but they are not taking calls either. Will let you know when I do.
I'm wondering if perhaps Mary said she couldn't read or write when it was time to sign the register? Got the 1911 thanks Mary.

Just got off the phone. Finally got directed to the right registrars office which was the London Borough of Bromley. Spoke to a lovely lady who is going to check the records. Will keep you posted.

I don't think the signatures on the 1911 census and the first marriage certificate are conclusively the same Mary or not, allowing for a 37 year gap between them. What does anyone else think?

1911 census - Mary Scivier b. 1851 - living Wandsworth with husband, George, and children,, William, Frederick and Ellen.


1874 marriage in Paddington (covered by Ancestry's London Marriages) between John Tubbs and Mary Ansell (transcribed by Ancestry as Ausell)

Just nudging this up in the hope that someone will take a look

Hi,

Will have a look

Regards Vera

from findmypast
BMD Search result details

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: ANSELL, Mary
Registration District: Help Kensington
County: London
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: Help 1A
Page No: Help 368
MarriageFinder™: Mary Ansell married one of the following people Help


FARRINGTON, Harry view record


TUBB, John William view record

It is possible they could be the same person....look how she signs her " y," with a tail. Looks like she was going to put Georges name in the signature then changed her mind ignoring the extra...look at the" M".

Of course I could be wrong.

What do you think?

Regards Vera

Thanks for looking Vera. I agree with you that the "y" is very similar, and unusual. I don't know what to think.

We're trying to check on a possible bigamous marriage here. Unfortunately, the certificate for the second marriage (sent by the GRO) isn't a copy of the original, so we don't have Mary's original signature on that.

Very frustrating, surely the original should be somewhere. Which church was she married at, they must have the original in parish records.

Regards Vera

It was in Croydon - I don't know which church. This is Dee's thread. Her last entry is above at 11.32 I hope she hears back from Bromley with something positive.

Hi Vera,
George and Mary were married at St. Paul's in Penge.I have spoken to someone in the records office in Bromley which covered Penge. Thanks to Christina giving me a phone number for Croydon who passed me on to Bromley district (which covered Penge) She is going to look up the record but she said that whether it would be the original church record or the same copy as I have already been given by the GRO office she could'nt say.

Thanks Christina,
Hopefully Dee will have some good news.

Regards Vera