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JoonieCloonie thanks again.

Both my mother and myself suspect that Joseph Dooley may actually be her father & my grandfather - the fake LW Wilson.. for several reasons including that we have not been able to find a death for Joseph Dooley and that my grandmother had a son called Joseph not long after arriving her in Queensland... I will endeavour to follow up on this.
I will also look further into the DNA testing.

David, the point actually is the rule against multiple posts about the same thing

your posts are all about the same thing, the identity of the partner of Clara Reynolds Wilson

posting separate threads for each relation of her and her first husband just produces the kind of multiplication of the same effort as we have seen

once that has happened, linking to all the threads in each thread (as has been done in your threads over the years) is just closing the barn door!


any thoughts about the Joseph Henry Dooley I postulated?

or the idea of DNA testing?

(I have had YDNA tests done on both sides of my family and it has led to something very interesting on the side where I was trying to solve a mystery, through the stroke of luck that someone with very closely matching YDNA had also tested through Family Tree DNA. Not everyone will be so lucky, by a long chalk.)

Thanks Joonie Cloonie - much appreciated and I never thought to add the links in one message - good idea.

but already having invested time, and being forever curious ...


electoral roll info

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1909 Queensland Brisbane Brisbane North

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1913 Queensland Brisbane Brisbane North

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1913 Queensland Brisbane Brisbane North

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1917 Queensland Brisbane Brisbane North

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1949 New South Wales West Sydney Darlinghurst West

Joseph Henry Dooley Male 1949 New South Wales West Sydney Foveaux


The last 2 seem to be the same man counted twice; both show "no occupation"

There is no listing for the name between 1917 and 1949

the co-respondent in the divorce in 1923 was Joseph Dooley


there is no birth, marriage or death in either NSW or QLD for a Joseph Henry Dooley


is it possible that this is the man who was the co-respondent in the divorce and became the fake Leslie William Wilson?


I am going to make my usual recommendation for trying to identify recent ancestors

your mother and yourself should submit DNA samples to a reputable organization with a large database that focuses on people making connections (Family Tree DNA is the one I am familiar with and about the only one that meets those criteria; Ancestry is useless, and 23andMe has a large database but few users are actually looking for connections)

you would not be able to use your YDNA to identify your maternal grandfather because there is an intervening female ancestor, your mother

your grandfather did not passed on his mitochondrial (mother's) DNA as males receive it but do not pass it down

so I would suggest the autosomal ('family finder') test which identifies cousin relationships, that can then be worked on to try to identify exactly what the relationship is

... if, of course, someone related also tests

DNA testing is becoming increasingly popular in Australia so it is possible that a descendant of your grandfather's parents or grandparents may test, for instance

However if you do have a male-line descendant of Clara's mystery partner - a son of Clara or a son of her son - this would be the person who should test, as he would carry the YDNA of his father or grandfather.


for info, if you search at the findagrave site in Lutwyche Cemetery, Brisbane

http://tinyurl.com/pelblw2

you will find the graves of

Wilson, Clara 135053322
b. 1904 d. Sep. 25, 1977

Wilson, Leslie William 135053315
b. 1893 d. Mar. 7, 1956

David how about you post links to every one of the other threads you have posted about this question, the ones in Living Relatives and any others here in Find Ancestors, so that if anyone sees this thread now 4 years after you first posted them all (and have been nudging them all today without adding any of the info to the others that you got in this thread for example) they do not start reinventing the wheel as I apparently did ?

edit

here

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1267423

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1267424

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1267421

no guarantee those are all

bump

nudge

nudge

nudge

Hi

I have done further searching about Leslie William Wilson. It would seem that one part of family secret is true - Leslie- my grandmother's first husband did stay in NSW and my grandmother came to Queensland with another man who took on the same name.

The new information that I have is that Leslie W Wilson was born 8 Dec 1892 -Sydney and died 5 Oct 1980 at Picton NSW. I have purchased the death certificate - but unfortunately it has little information on it.

However I have had limited email conversation with a lady who met Leslie and her sister was married to Leslie's grandson - Glen Wilson. This lady was able to confirm Leslie's parents and that he did have a son named William David Wilson with my grandmother Clara Reynolds.

However the email conversation has ceased (not sure of reason) so I have again come to the end of the road. Any information about this Leslie William Wilson would be great.

Regards

That's a good point - about the Mr & Mrs LW...no marriage between 1923 and 1927 in NSW.

How bizarre! Ah family secrets, they'll do your head in. *grin*

Hello

No they did not reconcile, in fact my uncle claims to have met the real Leslie William Wilson after my grandfather (the fake Leslie) had passed away. My uncle at that timewas visiting William the same one mentioned in the memorial ad.

I notice in the funderal notice that invite was for Mr & Mrs L W Wilson - perhaps the real Leslie remarried.

Unfortunately my uncle is very reluctant to tell me or my mother any information he knows that may help solve this riddle.

Ah I see. Yes generally, the co-respondent is the 'other' party in the relationship. Usually divorces were all over the papers in those days but I can't see it at all.

But as you say there is no death for Leslie Wm with parent David & Jemima, apart from the Qld one, which you suggest is a bogus identity...

Curiouser, and curiouser!

Are you certain they did not reconcile? It is entirely possible there were two men by the name of Leslie William WILSON, as it is not at all an uncommon surname...

Though I must agree that the 1928 memoriam notice only mentioning Leslie and son Wm is a very good clue. No mention of his wife or any other children.

What a puzzle!

HI Cherilyn
Im not surprised you are confused.

The information you have provided is correct.

The story I have been told is as follows:

William Leslie son of David & Jemima married my grandmother Clara. It would seem they divorced in 1923 (I have the paperwork but it does not say divorce was final).

Clara it would seem before the divorce met my grandfather who took on the name Leslie William Wilson - they moved to Qld and it is them that is interred at Lutwyche. Why he took on that name I dont know but they continued to use it - my grandmother even provided the names of David Black Wilson and Jemima Crew Strachan (later wilson)for my grandfathers death certifcate , even though apparently they were not his parents!!!!

I am now trying to find out the identity of the man who married Clara

So there are two seperate Leslie William Wilson's - although only one is real .

Some of the information you provided seems to support the assumption that they are seperate individuals - as records for Leslie William in Qld & NSW at same time. I now need to find either a marriage record for the NSW Leslie William Wilson or a death for him which will confirm that my grandfather stole his identity.

Hope this makes sense - it is confusing to write it out.

On the application for divorce the applicant is Leslie William Wilson and he list my grandmother and a Joseph Dooley as the respondents. Perhaps Joseph is my mothers father and my grandfather!!

cheers

From www.trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper

I am confused - was there also a Wm who was the son of David & Jemima?

Is the Leslie Wm who died in Qld the correct one?

I though it was Leslie Wm who had a son named Wm?

Leslie & Clara divorced? Yet they were still interred together...interesting :)

Hi Cherilyn
Can you tell me where you found those death notices etc for Jemima
thanks

thanks Moonbi

DEATHs in NSW

There are two Wilson with mother Jemima

2885/1955
WILSON Arthur David
Father given name David Black
Mother Jemima Crew
District Newton

and
7163/ 1960
WILSON Walter Norman
Father given name David Black
Mother Jemima Crew
District Rockdale

Thanks Cherilyn

The in memorial notice placed by Leslie would seem to verify part of the story at least - by 1928 my grandmother had 4 other childre - all supposedly to the man she married. Leslie however has always claimed that only William was his. There was a divorce applied for in 1923 but the paperwork I have does not say it was absolute - I have assumed it was.

The burial of Clara and Leslie you found are my grandparents. But I am beginning to suspect that perhaps there is truth in the rumour that my grandfathers name was not leslie william wilson. If so they kept the charade very well as the death cert for Qld William lists David Black and Jemima as his parents. Oh the mystery deepens.

Thanks for your assistance - now just need to find a death for William in NSW which list David & Jemima as his parents. Any other info/tips you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

Burial of Leslie Wm and wife Clara:

Wilson Leslie William 09 / 03 / 1956 63 years
Wilson Clara 29 / 09 / 1977 73 years
Cemetery: Lutwyche Cemetery
Street Address: Cnr Lutwyche and Kitchener Rds, Kedron
Monumental 14 5 13

From http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/facilities-recreation/cemeteries/grave-location-search/index.htm