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HMS Prince of Wales from what I can see would not have been a ship he served on as it was a George V class ship of the 20th century

The photo sounds strange for the era in which he would have served as I would have guessed that sailing ships were not as common in the RN by the time is was old enough to be a seaman rather than a ship's boy. I'm sure it isn't but it sounds more like the description of a stage set in 'The Gondaliers'! However I am by no means a naval expert and the only member of my family to be in the RN is no longer around to ask.

@Astra & lancashireAnn

I have just spoken to my elderly relative about William again, she has passed all of Williams effects onto her daughter for safekeeping, but will have them when I go to visit her.

I did ask her about his RN service & she seems pretty sure he din't serve in WW1.
She has a picture of him in uniform standing in front of his ship which has sails.
He is in White trousers with horizontally striped top & has a straw hat on instead of the modern type navy hat. Unfortunately the name of the ship cannot be seen on the photo. She does seem to rememer the name of a ship he talked about being HMS Prince of Wales.
I haven't looked at any Naval records yet as I only found out about this in the last 30 mins.
Thanks again

Thaks everbody for your help.
After reading all the posts the situation is much clearer to me.

Again thanks a lot.
Regards

thanks William

please let us know when you have those certificates and we can all carry on from there

Good Morning William and thank you for clearing up this confusion.
It was the Rowlands issue that was causing some puzzlement and your confirmation that Lilian and Thomas were brother and sister has laid that to rest. I did find them on the 1911 census together with their parents William and Rhoda.

You said early on in the thread that the birth certificate of your grandmother has her mother's maiden name as Chapman. Can you give us the information from that certificate please so that we can check it out.

I should imagine that William joined the Navy during the 1914-18 war years but that will be confirmed when you get his papers.

Oh my goodness. I have just re-looked for your birth registration because i was sure that there was no William T. Rowlands with mother's maiden name Higgins. The Registration for Thomas T is actually you but has been transcribed wrongly. On the original image it is William T and Ancestry have transcribed the Thomas from the line above. So another problem solved. There is no Thomas T Rowlands he is just a mistranscription. I will add a comment to the record on Ancestry so that it is there for future researchers.
Please post any new information you have when you have visited your relative on here and we can tie up the loose ends.

Have a good day

Astra

@Lancashire Ann
Hi
As I said in an earlier post I haven't got any certificates relating to William Chapman but will have in the next 2 weeks when I visit my elderly relative. She has all of Williams papers including his RN service record. She has these as he went to live with her mother until his death so his effects were passed down to that side of the family.
With regard to Lillian, her fathers name was William Rowlands, her mother Rhoda Taylor, again I know this factually as I am in touch with Rhoda's living relatives, (by her brother Robert), some of his children are still alive (just) & living in Cannock along with their children. I do remember William Chapman as I was 11 when he died. He was supposed to have been cremated & his ashes scattered on a family grave, which, I am still yet to find. I have already made enquiries at the main cemetary in Salford but they reported back to me that they cannot find a Chapman grave at the place the family grave is supposed to be.
My next step is to search at graves online & see what I can find.
A lot of the information I have about the Rowland(S) family is 100% correct it is only William Chapman that is causing me problems.
One last thing is that a lot of the older Rowlands family members only died in the past 10 years or so well before I started this quest, but I do remember stories being told about other family members who died when I was a lot younger (I'm 60).
Another eason the information is so sparse is that there was some sort of rift in the family in the 40's and a lot of the family split up & didn't talk to each other for many many years so the history was lost along the way.
Again thanks for your help
Regards

also am I right in thinking that if a child was stillborn it went on a stillborn register not the normal register?

please - how old was William on his marriage certificate to Lillian? It might give a better idea of his year of birth as death records are notoriously wrong, being only as good as the informant can remember

also What was Williams father's exact name on the certificate

also Lillian's father's name

it might help to clear up confusion

I assume you actually have the certificate as elderly memories are often wrong as you have already proved with the birthplace as Salford not as you were told in Sheerness

Further Addition
The Thomas T Rowlands found earlier could be related but again is a uncertain fact.
Please bear with me whilst I explain.
2 brothers married 2 sisters.
My father Derek Rowlands married Catherine Higgins Dec 1950 (yes my mother was pregnant with me)
Dereks older brother Thomas Married my mothers older sister Edith Higgins.
Thomas & Edith had a daughter Sanda J who died shortly after birth but there is also an entry for another child Thomas T who I am told was stillborn, the twin of Sandra J. However no-one is absolutely 100% sure that the Thomas T mentioned is related as no-one in the family knew about it until years later. Unfortunately Thomas & Edith died before I started the family tree, & their surviving children didn't know about the deceased sister/poosible brother.
Regards

Addition.
Just read all the posts for which I thank you all very much.
I hope this info clears things up a little & clarifies why I was so confused.
My Full name is William Travis Rowland(s) b 1951 March Salford.
Father Derek Rowland, b1931 his Father Thomas Rowland b1908 d1953, mother Ellen Chapman b1909, d2002
Thomas Rowland's father William Rowlands b1882, mother Rhoda Taylor b1884.
William Chapman did indeed marry Lillian Rowland 1933, Lillian being Thomas's sister. My Grandmother Ellen Married Thomas Rowland in 1927.
So I think you can see why I was so confused, originally I thought that William's marriage to Lillian Rowland was incestuos, but realised later they were not blood relatives, but, it still doesn't seem right to me.
The address at 42 West Union St is correct also.
Again thanks to everyone, the confusion is getting clearer.
Regards

Hi all in Particular Astra,

I've just come back from seeing my father & my Aunt who are both 80 and have a liitle more information, which may help me in my search.

As a previous post suggested my Aunt & Grandmother were not born in Sheerness, they were born in Salford Manchester, they used to go on Holiday to Sheerness when my Aunt Mary & Gran Ellen were children, this apparently went on until my Dad was a child.
The details that were posted about the 1911 census for 193 Oldfield Road is also 100% correct.
Lillian Rowland(s) was indeed my Grandfather Thomas Rowlands's sister, how she came to marry William Chapman is still in question.
Williams sister did indeed marry Thomas Hammond, and the family have proof of this marriage, I personally do not have this information yet. But will have in the next 2 weeks when I visit an elderly family member.
I have also found out that the true family surname is Rowland the "S" was added for some unknown reason over the years.For Astra my full name is William Travis Rowlands, hence the confusion about Travis & Tranter.
With regards to the Mary Ann Wells connection, I have thought that she was William's mother who remarried, but what threw me was the statement that Edward Wells who is only 8 years older than William is stated as his Father, not Stepfather as you would expect. I will research this further.
Thanks to all for their advice & telling off & hope I can still get assistance from all.
Regards

I think he is Thomas T. Not William. Derek and Catherine don't appear to have had a son named William that I found anyway. I went back to Ellen to try and sort out the Rowlands issue because it was confusing me.
I have had another PM from 'William' which I was just about to reply to telling him that he must post on the thread and read the information that is posted more thoroughly. He seems to be fixed on the idea that Mr. Wells is William's father and can't seem to understand that it is only the person that William's mother married. I'm 95% sure that we have the correct family. It's just a case of encouraging 'William' to get some certs. to prove it.

Ellen Chapman (Sheerness/Salford about 1909) married Thomas Rowlands in 1927, as Astra put.
Their son was Derek born in Salford in 1931 and is your Father?
You are then Thomas T Rowlands born in 1951.
No, you are called William. I have gone wrong again.
(But it fits in with Mother's maiden name that you gave earlier, and age also)

We cross-posted.

I think I am getting confused with generations here as we seem to be flitting back and forth. Can we go back to basics and produce a timeline please

father (unnamed) - parents - Thomas Rowlands and Ellen Chapman married 1927????.
Who exactly was Ellen's father on the certificate and his occupation and Ellen's age (17/18 as in 1909 birth above?)

Ellen's parents from her birth certificate???

as I asked before

what age does he give on the certificate of his marriage to Lillian please and what was his full name on the certificate

are you sure your uncle's middle name of Tranter was after your grandfather and not after his mother's maiden name (see marriage of William Chapman & Ellen Tranter)

Have you found any evidence to sat William middle name was Tranter and not (eg) Thomas

If it is correct then it means that William was Brother in Law to his daughter and Uncle and Grandfather to her children. Must have been confusing!

Had me puzzled too. But with this scenario it makes more sense.

But I don't think our poster is actually called William!

William, our poster, is William Rowlands, which confused me, but now seems to make sense.
However, I would like to know his parents and grandparents to try and tie everything up.

Ellen Rowlands died in 2002

Ellen Rowlands
Birth Date: 18 Apr 1909
Death Registration Month/Year: Aug 2002
Age at death (estimated): 93
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register number: TC68
District and Subdistrict: 0111C
Entry number: 254


Which matches this birth registration

Births Jun 1909 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAPMAN Ellen Salford 8d 110

Mmmmm

William Chapman married Lillian Rowlands who died in 1954. The date on her death cert means she was born in 1905.

Lillian Chapman
Death Registration Month/Year: 1954
Age at death (estimated): 49
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 394



Ellen Chapman (William's daughter born 1909) married Thomas Rowlands in 1927

Marriages Sep 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>Chapman Ellen Rowlands Salford 8d 848
Potts Albert Smith Salford 8d 848
>>>Rowlands Thomas Chapman Salford 8d 848
Smith Minnie Potts Salford 8d 848


Were Thomas and Lillian brother and sister?

1911


ROWLANDS, William Head Married
6 years M 29 1882 Hawker Salford Man VIEW
ROWLANDS, Rhoda Wife Married F 27 1884 Salford Man VIEW
>>ROWLANDS, Lilian Daughter F 6 1905 Salford Man VIEW
>>ROWLANDS, Thomas Son M 3 1908 Salford Man VIEW


Address:
42 West Union Street Salford

Unless this is the family. EDIT: Not this one he is a widower in 1901

Mary Bethel
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Travis Bethel
Gender: Female
Where born: Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Blackley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Household Members: Name Age
Travis Bethel 42
Mary Bethel 48
William T Bethel 18
Mary A Bethel 15
Minnie Bethel 13