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Further Addition
The Thomas T Rowlands found earlier could be related but again is a uncertain fact.
Please bear with me whilst I explain.
2 brothers married 2 sisters.
My father Derek Rowlands married Catherine Higgins Dec 1950 (yes my mother was pregnant with me)
Dereks older brother Thomas Married my mothers older sister Edith Higgins.
Thomas & Edith had a daughter Sanda J who died shortly after birth but there is also an entry for another child Thomas T who I am told was stillborn, the twin of Sandra J. However no-one is absolutely 100% sure that the Thomas T mentioned is related as no-one in the family knew about it until years later. Unfortunately Thomas & Edith died before I started the family tree, & their surviving children didn't know about the deceased sister/poosible brother.
Regards
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please - how old was William on his marriage certificate to Lillian? It might give a better idea of his year of birth as death records are notoriously wrong, being only as good as the informant can remember
also What was Williams father's exact name on the certificate
also Lillian's father's name
it might help to clear up confusion
I assume you actually have the certificate as elderly memories are often wrong as you have already proved with the birthplace as Salford not as you were told in Sheerness
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also am I right in thinking that if a child was stillborn it went on a stillborn register not the normal register?
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@Lancashire Ann
Hi
As I said in an earlier post I haven't got any certificates relating to William Chapman but will have in the next 2 weeks when I visit my elderly relative. She has all of Williams papers including his RN service record. She has these as he went to live with her mother until his death so his effects were passed down to that side of the family.
With regard to Lillian, her fathers name was William Rowlands, her mother Rhoda Taylor, again I know this factually as I am in touch with Rhoda's living relatives, (by her brother Robert), some of his children are still alive (just) & living in Cannock along with their children. I do remember William Chapman as I was 11 when he died. He was supposed to have been cremated & his ashes scattered on a family grave, which, I am still yet to find. I have already made enquiries at the main cemetary in Salford but they reported back to me that they cannot find a Chapman grave at the place the family grave is supposed to be.
My next step is to search at graves online & see what I can find.
A lot of the information I have about the Rowland(S) family is 100% correct it is only William Chapman that is causing me problems.
One last thing is that a lot of the older Rowlands family members only died in the past 10 years or so well before I started this quest, but I do remember stories being told about other family members who died when I was a lot younger (I'm 60).
Another eason the information is so sparse is that there was some sort of rift in the family in the 40's and a lot of the family split up & didn't talk to each other for many many years so the history was lost along the way.
Again thanks for your help
Regards
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Good Morning William and thank you for clearing up this confusion.
It was the Rowlands issue that was causing some puzzlement and your confirmation that Lilian and Thomas were brother and sister has laid that to rest. I did find them on the 1911 census together with their parents William and Rhoda.
You said early on in the thread that the birth certificate of your grandmother has her mother's maiden name as Chapman. Can you give us the information from that certificate please so that we can check it out.
I should imagine that William joined the Navy during the 1914-18 war years but that will be confirmed when you get his papers.
Oh my goodness. I have just re-looked for your birth registration because i was sure that there was no William T. Rowlands with mother's maiden name Higgins. The Registration for Thomas T is actually you but has been transcribed wrongly. On the original image it is William T and Ancestry have transcribed the Thomas from the line above. So another problem solved. There is no Thomas T Rowlands he is just a mistranscription. I will add a comment to the record on Ancestry so that it is there for future researchers.
Please post any new information you have when you have visited your relative on here and we can tie up the loose ends.
Have a good day
Astra
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thanks William
please let us know when you have those certificates and we can all carry on from there
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Thaks everbody for your help.
After reading all the posts the situation is much clearer to me.
Again thanks a lot.
Regards
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@Astra & lancashireAnn
I have just spoken to my elderly relative about William again, she has passed all of Williams effects onto her daughter for safekeeping, but will have them when I go to visit her.
I did ask her about his RN service & she seems pretty sure he din't serve in WW1.
She has a picture of him in uniform standing in front of his ship which has sails.
He is in White trousers with horizontally striped top & has a straw hat on instead of the modern type navy hat. Unfortunately the name of the ship cannot be seen on the photo. She does seem to rememer the name of a ship he talked about being HMS Prince of Wales.
I haven't looked at any Naval records yet as I only found out about this in the last 30 mins.
Thanks again
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HMS Prince of Wales from what I can see would not have been a ship he served on as it was a George V class ship of the 20th century
The photo sounds strange for the era in which he would have served as I would have guessed that sailing ships were not as common in the RN by the time is was old enough to be a seaman rather than a ship's boy. I'm sure it isn't but it sounds more like the description of a stage set in 'The Gondaliers'! However I am by no means a naval expert and the only member of my family to be in the RN is no longer around to ask.
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