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So excited Catherine - what a geek I am!! James Havern is a witness at the wedding of Thomas Dougan and Fanny Shields, 1919
You are on track! Yippee -

I have the marriage index for NZ - and the Havern family definitely made it there! This is so funny, because no one on any of the branches every mentioned them! There is a Peter Dougan Havern and a Rose Dougan Havern and the prerequisite William, Elizabeth and James. My poor mother in law, I am doing her research for her 60 th wedding anniversary, she always said she didn't have any relatives - now she's going to have so many it will blow her mind!

I have found Rose Ann and James Havern's deaths in NZ both in 1950. A piece of luck = they are the only Havern family in the country by the looks of it,

1924

HEVRON Agens 1912 F 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW
HEVRON Jas 1878 M 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW
HEVRON Peter 1904 M 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW
HEVRON Rose 1879 F 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW
HEVRON Rose 1908 F 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW
HEVRON Wm 1913 M 1924 Southampton New Zealand Wellington VIEW VIEW

Catherine

Children who are on 1911 are-

Elizabeth 12
James 11
Janet 9
Peter 7 NZ
Sarah 5 who dies in 1918
Rose 3 NZ
Agnes 3 months NZ

and then William born in 1913 who travelled to NZ


Looks like Elizabeth married in 1919 to Thomas Rae Scott . There are 3 marriages for a Janet last one is to McNabb. She dies in Scotland. James may have married to a Lorn. The only way to find out is to open the certs on Scotland's People.

Regards

Catherine

Thanks Catherine, I will have to do some more on the NZ side tomorrow - off to work now. Thanks for picking up the different spelling of Havern on the ship - does it say what ship they came in on, just curious if they arrived with any other of the Dougan/Logan/McVean clan.
The Haverns settled in Auckland - I found mention of them in the local paper on line, so they were a long way from the rest of the clan.
I will pull some documents from Scotland's People once I have got my head around all of this!

I think that, James b 1900, James and Rose's son may have also gone to NZ - I have a James born 1900 married in NZ 1928 to Jane Steel, died 1935. I will have to pull a death certificate for him to be sure.
Looked at the images on Scotlands people for the marriage of James Havern and Rose Dougan. James parents are James and Janet Lamont - he is illigetimate.
Then Janet and James Marry.
The James b 1900 who marries Lorn is not the same James, this Jame's father is John Havern - so he could be a cousin. So from what I can see, our son James does not marry in Scotland.
It would also appear that James Havern's sister Agnes and his brother Robert also arrived in NZ at some stage.

1901

Name: James Havern
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Rose Havern
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: 12a Milton Terrace
Occupation: Calico Tenter
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 18
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1901_167
Household Members: Name Age
James Havern 25
Rose Havern 23
James Havern 1
Lizzie Havern 1

Source Citation: Parish: Bonhill; ED: 17; Page: 4; Line: 9; Roll: CSSCT1901_167; Year: 1901.


1891

Name: James Havern
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relationship: Son
Father's name: James Havern
Mother's name: Janet Havern
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: 174 Main Street
Occupation: Labourer in Print Field
ED: 19
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 24
Roll: CSSCT1891_157
Household Members: Name Age
James Havern 25 b. Ireland, Night watchman in Print Field
Janet Havern 36 b. Glasgow
James Havern 16
John Havern 6 b. Bonhill, Dumbartonshire
Robert Havern 1 b. Bonhill, Dumbartonshire
Margaret Havern 8 b. Bonhill, Dumbartonshire
Agnes Havern 3 b. Bonhill, Dumbartonshire

Source Citation: Parish: Bonhill; ED: 19; Page: 6; Line: 24; Roll: CSSCT1891_157; Year: 1891.

1881

Name: James Havern
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Son
Father's name: James Havern
Mother's name: Janet Havern
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: 146 Bank Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 102
Line: 5
Roll: cssct1881_142
Household Members: Name Age
James Havern 25
Janet Havern 26
James Havern 5
Jane Taylor 16 Boarder, b. Glasgow, Print Field Worker
Sarah Taylor 13 Boarder, b. Glasgow, Print Field Worker

Source Citation: Parish: Bonhill; ED: 2; Page: 25; Line: 5; Roll: cssct1881_142; Year: 1881

1901

Name: James Havern
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : James Havern
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: 180 Main Street
Occupation: Stoker In Print-works
ED: 19
Household schedule number: 34
Line: 20
Roll: CSSCT1901_167
Household Members: Name Age
James Havern 45
James Havern 45
Maggie Havern 18
John Havern 16
Agnes Havern 12
Robert Havern 10
William Havern 6
Jannet Havern 4 MO

Source Citation: Parish: Bonhill; ED: 19; Page: 7; Line: 20; Roll: CSSCT1901_167; Year: 1901

Thanks Rootgatherer!
It would seem that John probably had a son named James as well - and born the same year, how genius is that!

Catherine: where is your source for ship's manifests please? I am having trouble finding one on line for NZ. I think that James b 1900 may have come out earlier, possibly even with Thomas Dougan in 1921. (Thomas is his Uncle and they were apparently close as James witnessed Thomas' wedding) just a hunch.

Hi Janet

Findmypast and Ancestry are the sites I have used for travel.

Catherine

I have Janet Havern, married to David Campbell, emmigrating to NZ on the same ship as her parents, Rose and James Havern. So a different Janet Havern for the other two marriages in Scotland.
This is wonder information, thanks Catherine and Rootgatherer, the family is taking shape. <-3

I would love to know more about Mary Dougan, the only sybling who stayed in Scotland. She was born c 1888. See Census below,
Born Alexandria, Scotland, (Bushy, Renfrew, or Bonhill depending on documents)
She married Walter MENZIES on 1 Jan 1909 in Alexandria. (Walter is son of John Menzies and Catherine BROWN, both deceased at time of marriage)
Daughter Elizabeth Hall Menzies dec 27, 1909
Peter Dougan Menzies 1918
Probably more children.
Any help in tracking down the MENZIES family would be greatly appreciated. I have the marriage and Elizabeth Hall MENZIE'S certificates from Scotland's People.
Thanks so much,
Janet


1891 Census
Peter Dougan
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth Dougan
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
COUNTY: Dumbartonshire
Address: No 21 Napierston Terr
Occupation: Hydraulic Engine Man
ED: 16
Household schedule number: 26
Line: 3
Roll: CSSCT1901_167
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Dougan 49
Elizabeth Dougan 48
William Dougan 19
Sarah Dougan 18
Lizzie Dougan 16
Mary Dougan 14
Agnes Dougan 12
Thomas Dougan 10
James Dougan 6
John Hall 73
Sarah Hall 71

Looked up Paton on SP, and found James Glasford PATON m Elizabeth Hall MENZIES in Dunbarton, 1931, so this would be Mary DOUGAN married name MENZIE's daughter's marriage,

Maybe try 192.com for Menzies/Paton in Dumbarton. i HAVE SENT A PM WITH OTHER INFO.

Catherine

Looks like they may have moved to Old Kilpatrick , not that far from Dumbarton.

1975 MENZIES MARY Not Permissible DOUGAN F 89 OLD KILPATRICK /WEST DUNBARTONSHIRE

Catherine

Thanks Catherine,
What does 'not permissible' mean for the mother's name?
Also I found a Peter Dougan Menzies Born and died 1918 aged zero. in Bonhill, Dunbarton.
Probably one more child of Mary and Walter. (I will pull the certs on this over the weekend)

A period in time on SP not sure from or when to but mother's maiden name will not be shown.

Catherine

Thanks Catherine,
I just found a geocity site with a lot of Canadian Dugan's on it, they are the descendents of Daniel Dougan and Margaret Taggart - Daniel is the brother of Peter Dougan - so now I have about 30 more names to varify and add to the tree!
If the first thing I think about in the morning is dead people, does that mean I am officially hooked on genealogy? :-D