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Ok
I do have a marriage certificate somewhere in a box for Elise Mary Holderness marrying Charles Hammond, and was always said in the family that brother & sister ended up marrying brother and sister.

Tell me ive gone wrong somewhere...... :-(

Name: Jane Ratley
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 3 Apr 1880
Marriage Place: Eton,Buckingham,England
Spouse: Frederick George Holdermers

Name: Frederick G. Holderness
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Holderness
Gender: Male
Where born: Eton, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 5 Cleveland Ter Clive Rd
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Gardener*******************************
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Norwood
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 629
Folio: 39
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick G. Holderness 32
Jane Holderness 32
William J. Holderness 5
Lizzie J.F. Holderness


HOLDERNESS, LIZZIE JENNIE FANNY RATTLEY
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 582

Oh dear....

Looks like i've got a bit of new researching to be doing!!

How could I have got that so wrong????

Oh dear....

Looks like i've got a bit of new researching to be doing!!

How could I have got that so wrong????

1851

Mary A Holderness Wife - Female 32 1819 - Egham, Surrey, England
William E Holderness Son - Male 5 1846 - Egham, Surrey, England
John Holderness Son - Male 0 1851 - Eton, Buckinghamshire, England
Fredrick Holderness Son - Male 3 1848 - Eton, Buckinghamshire, England
William Holderness Head Married Male 48 1803 Gardener Bray, Berkshire, England


HOLDERNESS, FREDERICK GEORGE PENN
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 06 Page 355


Name: Mary Ann Penn
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 8 Sep 1847
Marriage Place: St Leonard, Shoreditch, Hackney, England
Father: Henry Penn
Spouse: William Holderness*********************Widower Occ: Gardener
Father: John Holderness Occ: Gardener

First name(s) William
Last name Holderness
Gender Male
Birth year 1803
Birth place -
Baptism year 1803
Baptism date 08 May 1803
Place Bray
County Berkshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Holderness
Mother's first name(s) Lydia
Mother's last name Wells



1841
Mill Field, Eton, Buckinghamshire & Berkshire, England
William Holderness Male 38 1803 Buckinghamshire, England Gardener
Mary Holderness Female 48 1793 Buckinghamshire, England
Hannah Holderness Female 14 1827 Buckinghamshire, England
Charlotte Holderness Female 12 1829 Buckinghamshire, England

Record Transcription:
England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019

First name(s) Elsie Mary
Last name Holderness
Death year 1939
Death date 25 Aug 1939
Probate year 1939
Probate date 19 Sep 1939
Residence town London
Registry London
County London
Linked persons Percy Edward Holderness
Country England
Record set England & Wales Government Probate Death Index 1858-2019
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England

elsie was a spinster

percy is a telephone clerk

1851 for the daughters from 1841 census


William Clark Head Male 29 England
Joseph Clark Son Male 7 England
Henry Clark Son Male 6 England
Charlotte Holderness Sister Female 21 England*********
Mary Holderness Daughter Female 2 England (Hannah's daughter)
Hanah Holderness Lodger Female 24 England*************
Sarah Clark Daughter Female 1 England
Benjamin Clark Son Male 3 England

Hannah's daughter's birth........No MMN listed, obviously

HOLDERNESS, MARY MAIN -
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 06 Page 412

First wife's death

HOLDERNESS, MARY 52
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 06 Page 315

And her maiden name

Name: Mary Trish
[Mary Irish]
Gender: Female
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 20 Nov 1825
Marriage Place: Langham, Westminster, England
Spouse: William Holderness

Name: Hannah Holderness
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 24 Dec 1826
Baptism Place: Taplow,Buckingham,England
Father: William Holderness
Mother: Mary


Name: Hannah Holderness
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Registration Year: 1885
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 58
Registration district: Windsor
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Berkshire

Hannah in 1881 -

Name: Hannah Holderness
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Taplow, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Eton
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England
Street address: 3 Mill Lane
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Dressmaker
Registration district: Eton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1458
Folio: 42
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Hannah Holderness 52
John Pritchard 14********************************Grandson
Eleanor Lipscomb 82, Lodger

Marriages Mar 1869 (>99%)
Holderness Mary Main Kensington 1a 91
Pritchard Henry George Kensington 1a 91

Good evening everyone
I am working from my phone at present as I have now left work for the day.
I will look at the information that you have all kindly found for me this evening and work from this but might take me a while.
If I do not respond straight away bits because I'm working from my phone but do appreciate all the work that you have done for me.

Many thanks and kind regards
Samantha <3 <3 <3

Take all the time you need to study and evaluate the info

Stay safe

Good evening All
I have had a brief look, but need to get my head around all the information kindly given to me.
I shall probably take a better look tomorrow morning.
I really cannot believe that I have taken the wrong route, but we learn from our mistakes.
I still need to find the web search that I was using, so will dig my research box out of its hiding place.
I did many years ago discover that the Holderness name went back to Mary Queen of Scots.
Not that I'm saying my Holderness line is contected.

Regards
Samanth <3 <3 <3

Good morning All

I am still working my way through all the information given, which I'm most grateful for.
Still can't believe that I got the wrong Percy!!!
I may have some questions to ask once I have re-read again.

Regards
Samantha

Hello All

I have now read all the information, wow very interesting (thank you)

I am confused on one section and can't get my head round it, think I need someone to explain to me???

Its on post time 16.33 there are three Holderness listed
Benjamin Cecil Stevens
Edward Percy Stevens
Henry Charles Stevens

I'm not understanding them as they don't seem to be mentioned in any other census listed apart from my Percy, but where did the Stevens name come from????

Regards
Samantha <3

Stevens is the maiden name of the mother

Found here

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp


Henry Charles is on the census as 'Charles'

And Benjamin died before the census.........I posted the record

If you look on that post,
I thought Jane's maiden name was RATLEY

Now I am confused

Samantha x

I think you'd be well-advised to get a copy of Frederick's marriage cert when this is possible after the emergency ends


Name: Jane Ratley
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Eton
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 649

His daughter's birth was registered with MMN Rattley - but the sons born later had Stevens.

I have a feeling that Jane Stevens and Jane Ratley are one and the same - possibly she was illegitimate and her mother married after her birth


First name(s) Rachel
Last name Ratley
Sex Female
Marital status spinster
Banns year 1852
Banns date 22 Aug 1852
Marriage year -
Place Dorney
Denomination Anglican
Residence Dorney
Spouse's first name(s) James
Spouse's last name Stevens
Spouse's marital status bachelor
Spouse's residence Dorney

1851
Wycombe Union Wrkhse, Saunderton, Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England
First name(s) Rachel
Last name Ratley
Relationship Pauper
Marital status U
Sex Female
Age 21
Birth year 1830
Occupation Lacemaker
Birth place England
Birth place as transcribed England
Birth town Chinnor
Birth town as transcribed Chinnor


First name(s) Jane
Last name Ratley
Relationship Pauper
Marital status -
Sex Female
Age 2
Birth year 1849
Occupation -
Birth place England
Birth place as transcribed England
Birth town Saunderton
Birth town as transcribed Saunderton

Illegitimate (no MMN)
RATLEY, JANE -
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 06 Page 444

Ah ok this would make sense.

Sorry I was just getting a bit confused, back on track now.

Can I ask what sites you are using to find this information as I'm struggling to find anything.

Regards
Samantha

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
... Buildings, High Street, Eton, Buckinghamshire & Berkshire, England
James Stevens Head Married Male 27 1834 Labourer Buckinghamshire, England
Rachael Stevens Wife - Female 30 1831 Wife Oxfordshire, England
Jane Stevens Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1850 Scholar Oxfordshire, England

First name(s) Rachel
Last name Stevens
Burial year 1871
Birth year 1828
Death year -
Denomination Anglican
County Buckinghamshire
Country England
Place Eton
Document type Parish registers
Page 24
Age 43
Burial date 28 Dec 1871