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thankyou.

was just taking a look at the other children....if the death of john is correct as being 1835,then surely elizabeth couldnt be his daughter,as she wasnt born till1845/6.

john could be..dates fit.

going through baptismal lists there was a richard(i think)evans who also had several children.Maybe elizabeth was his?

doing this does mi good..takes mi mind off things..

All my findings are 'unproved' at the moment but I believe the 1841 I found is probably the right one.

If so, I don't think the wedding you have is correct.

I could, of course, be very wrong but you have some ;possibilities' to follow.

Sorry things are not going well for you and hubby at the moment - take a look through this when you can and come back to us with any questions.

Best wishes,

Dea Xxx

does indeed give food for thought Dea...will have another go at it.

Johns' son william was born in 1826,and i have found the marriage of a john evans and elizabeth singleton in 1825,so dates fit.

the wedding was on 13th aug.1825,at St.Johns.,Preston.

wondering could this be the right one?

I sat and went all the way thro the baptismal records,dont know how i missed more children!

got a lot on mi mind at the minute,with hubbys health,so not sleepin...stayed up all last night..thats how i advanced a bit further,

thnx for the help and suggestions,Patchem.,Lancashire Ann and Dea.x

The deaths put John and Elizabeth as born 1780 and 1786 respectively and so this marriage would be a 'possible' ?

Marriage: 2 Jan 1804 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Evans - (X), of Pemberton
Betty Parkinson - (X), of Pemberton
Witness: Wm. Bancks; William Atherton
Married by Banns by: John Gibson
Register: Marriages 1803 - 1812, Page 22, Entry 109
Source: LDS Film 1885690

Dea x

SO......... these 'could' be Ann + James baptisms?

Baptisms: 21 Apr 1821 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Evans - 3 Son of John Evans & Elizabeth
Born: 24 Feb
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1819 - 1822, Page 179, Entry 1425
Source: LDS Film 1885676


Baptisms: 9 Nov 1823 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
Ann Evins - Child of John Evins & Betty
Abode: Bickerstaffe
Occupation: Miner

..........................

IF the above James is correct, then it looks like they moved from Orrell to Bickerstaffe around 1822.

If correct, there could well be other children which I am listing below:

??????????????

Baptisms: 23 Aug 1813 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Even - 2 Daur. of John Even & Elizabeth
Born: 1 Aug
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Revnd. S. Hall
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1816, Page 56, Entry 446
Source: LDS Film 1885676

Baptisms: 3 Sep 1814 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Evans - 3 Son of John Evans & Betty
Born: 15 Jul
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Willm. Marsden
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1816, Page 147, Entry 1176
Source: LDS Film 1885676


Baptisms: 27 Sep 1817 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Evans - 2 Daur. of John Evans & Elizabeth
Born: 6 Jun
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1816 - 1819, Page 141, Entry 1128
Source: LDS Film 1885676


Baptisms: 21 Apr 1821 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Evans - 3 Son of John Evans & Elizabeth
Born: 24 Feb
Abode: Orrell
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1819 - 1822, Page 179, Entry 1425
Source: LDS Film 1885676


......................

Related Deaths? :

Burial: 30 May 1835 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
John Evans -
Age: 55 yrs
Abode: Bickerstaff
Notes: [Note in R.H. Column: New ground No.8, John Evans, 1 breadth.]
Buried by: Wm Ellam
Register: Burials 1813 - 1847, Page 113, Entry 898
Source: LDS Film 1657568



Burial: 28 Mar 1846 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England *******
Elizabeth Evans -
Age: 61 yrs
Abode: Bickerstaff
Buried by: Geoff Moore
Register: Burials 1813 - 1847, Page 187, Entry 1491
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Burial: 5 Apr 1853 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England ?????
Elizabeth Evans -
Age: 7 1/2 years
Abode: Melling
Buried by: William H Duck Offg. Minister
Register: Burials 1847 - 1859, Page 47, Entry 373
Source: LDS Film 1657568

Burial: 17 Sep 1837 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England ????
John Evans -
Age: 9 yrs
Abode: Bickerstaff
Notes: [Note in L.H. Column: New ground No. 26, Thomas Evans 1 breadth.]
Buried by: Wm Ellam
Register: Burials 1813 - 1847, Page 132, Entry 1054
Source: LDS Film 1657568

NO proof that the above is correct but something to explore??

Dea x

This appears to be the family in 1841 - loots like William + Ellen had other brothers and sisters:

1841 England Census
about Ellen Evans Name: Ellen Evans
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Ormskirk
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: Bickerstaffe
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 515
Book: 1
Folio: 13
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Evans 55 Ind.
James Evans 20 Coal Miner
Ann Evans 15
William Evans 13
Ellen Evans 11

at Middle Coal Miners Row.


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 515; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Ormskirk; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 13; Page: 19; Line: 20; GSU roll: 306902.

Dea x

C of E
BICKERSTAFFE, Holy Trinity (Ormskirk); Diocese of Liverpool
C 1843-1968 M 1844-1988 B 1843-1931 Orig reg PR 3409
C 1843-1968 M 1844-1988 B 1843-1931 Copy reg Microfilm PR 3409/1/1-9
C 1868 B 1868 Copy BT Microfilm DRL 2/346

so the marriage of John & Elizabeth could not have been at Bickerstaffe

The children seem to have been baptised at Rainford but as you no doubt know John & Elizabeth were not married there.

Just to add quickly that quite a few couples gave the same names to new children if older ones had died.
I think it is an interesting custom and asks lots of questions about our current thinking about how 'unique' each child is, the 'rights' of the parent, the use of 'family' names, the replacement of one child by another, whether they suffered any traumas about taking over a dead child's identity etc etc etc.

?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Bickerstaffe/HolyTrinity.shtml

took a break after I posted last sept...too many things happening at home.

tried again last night and got a bit further..

.found that william evans,b.1856(my gt g/father),had a father also called william,b.18th jul.1826,in bickerstaff(he had a sister,also b bickerstaff..ellen,b.1829.

the parents at their baptisms were john evans and elizabeth.

am looking for a marriage for john,but can't find any churches in bickerstaff,does anyone know how i can find churches local to bickerstaff?

also,was it usual for a couple to give a second child the same name as a child that died?

I believe my gt.gt g/father did that with 2 of his children..one died at 3 days..the other at 9 weeks,yet he still had 2 sons born later with same names.

have found burials of children in all saints,also williams burial aged just 32,in oct.1858.

his last son was born after his death.

I cannot get any further back until i can find the marriage of john evans and elizabeth,so would appreciate any help.

thankyou. :-)

ah, I see !

or was she not really a widow in 1861, just giving a decent explanation for her status ? possibly she was really an unmarried Alice Evans to start wtih ? ( no, you have their 1875 marriage )

so the only sightings in those censuses for husband William are in 1861 with mother Esther and in 1891 --

EVANS, William Head Married M 34 1857 Colliery Labourer Rainford Lancashire

and that is the only William Evans born within 5 years of 1857 who appears in the censuses as born in Rainford

but for him we do have a baptism

where is he in 1871 even ? I checked out a William Mason born 1857 in Rainford with mother Esther in case she married but that Esther was 43, the one in 1861 was 26 ...


aha here is William in 1871

Name: Willm Evans
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Stepson
Mother's Name: Esther Rothwell
Gender: Male
Where born: Rainford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Skelmersdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Ormskirk

Thomas Rothwell 35
Esther Rothwell 38
Elizth Rothwell 7
James Rothwell 5
Richd Rothwell 5
Peter Rothwell 2
Willm Evans 15
Richd Evans 11 ( he is in the 1861 too )


one bit of puzzle found

but this is the household in 1881 in Rainford, no William

Thomas Rothwell 43
Esther Rothwell 46
Robert Rothwell 15
James Rothwell 15
Peter Rothwell 12
Thomas Rothwell 9
Joseph Rothwell 6
Benjamin Cropper 23


( if you want to delete those 'nudge' posts we'll get more stuff on this page ! )


edit

but I have got no farther with 1881 and it is long past my bedtime so I will leave it to the early risers now !

alice was a widow living back home in 1881,then in 1891 she was married to william evans,with 5 children and in 1901 census she was widowed again,with 7 children. is it possible she was married to 2 william evans,or have i misread something?

curious to find out

Elaine does anyone know what info you are still looking for ?!

I find it impossibly difficult to wade through all those records on page 1 ... I am going to condense them so I can figure them out before even starting to wonder what you are asking now ... ( and space out what you said so it is possible to follow it )


william evans.b.rainford. 1857
married alice roughley(spelt ruffley on wedding cert)in 1875 in poolstock(wigan).
can find alice on censuses for 1871;'81;'91 and 1911.
can find william on 1891 census but drawn a blank everywhere else.
can anyone please help?
in 1891 i think they lived mealhouse lane. atherton


William Evans
christening: 23 Mar 1856 — Rainford, Lancashire, England
parents: William Evans, Esther
baptism/christening place: Rainford, Lancashire, England


1861 England Census

William Evans
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Esther Evans
Where born: Rainford, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Rainford
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Prescot

Esther Evans 26
John Evans 8
William Evans 4
Richard Evans 1


1881 census -

ROUGHLEY, Pheobe Head Married F 53 1828 House Keeper Eccleston Lancashire
ROUGHLEY, Annie Daughter Single F 14 1867 Coal Screener On Colliery Brow Upholland Lancashire
ROUGHLEY, Elizth Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar Upholland Lancashire
ROUGHLEY, Arthur Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar Upholland Lancashire
EVANS, Alice Widow F 24 1857 Coal Screener On Colliery Brow Upholland Lancashire

Registration District: Wigan
Sub District: Hindley
Civil Parish: Hindley
Address: 2, Baxters Row, Hindley


1891 census-

EVANS, William Head Married M 34 1857 Colliery Labourer Rainford Lancashire
EVANS, Alice Wife Married F 33 1858 Upholland Lancashire
EVANS, Albert Son Single M 7 1884 Scholar Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Elizabeth E Daughter Single F 6 1885 Scholar Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Richard Son Single M 4 1887 Scholar Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, John Son Single M 2 1889 Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, William Son Single M 0 (9M) 1891 Atherton Lancashire

Registration District: Leigh
Civil Parish: Atherton
Address: 135, Mealhouse Lane, Atherton
County: Lancashire


1901 census -

EVANS, Alice Head Widow F 44 1857 Upholland Lancashire
EVANS, Albert Son Single M 17 1884 Coal Miner Hewer Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 16 1885 Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Richard Son M 14 1887 Clog Iron Worker Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, John Son M 12 1889 Pointer In Bolt Works Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, William Son M 10 1891 Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Eli Son M 7 1894 Atherton Lancashire
EVANS, Fred Son M 5 1896 Atherton Lancashire

Registration District: Leigh
Civil Parish: Atherton
Address: 137, Mealhouse Lane, Atherton
County: Lancashire


1911:

EVANS, Alice Head Widow F 53 1858 At Home Lanc Upholland
EVANS, Albert Son Widower M 27 1884 Coal Miner Hewer Lanc Atherton
EVANS, Elizabeth E Daughter F 26 1885 Card Tenter Spinning Factory Lanc Atherton
EVANS, Richard Son M 24 1887 Coal Miner Lanc Atherton VIEW
EVANS, William Son M 20 1891 Coal Miners Drewer Down Coal Mine Lanc Atherton
EVANS, Eli Son M 19 1892 Coal Miners Drewer Down Coal Mine Lanc Atherton
EVANS, Fred Son M 15 1896 Coal Miners Drewer Down Coal Mine Lanc Atherton

Registration District: Leigh
Parish: Atherton
Address: 137 Mealhouse Lane Atherton
County: Lancashire


5 minutes well spent I think ...


I am afraid I can't follow things like this

have a copy of his marriage cert to my grandma(he was her 2nd husband--she was widowed after a year--her 1st husband died in WW1)
def. know he's the right one..his eldest daughter(my aunt & godmother)is still living..she 89.

who are these people, their names, I don't know who 'he' or 'my grandma' is ! :-D
it is far far better if you name people, I know I am not going to go digging back to figure out who your grandma is !

so ... what are the questions please ? :-)

Patchem,I found him on Ancestry UK.

went to drop down box..military..but instead of looking for WW1 service records,I looked in Pensions records!

thnx for the help.

Elaine

right...that explains why i couldnt find him then!

found 1 image,but didnt give much information...was the right one tho,cos his mothers name and address matched.

thnx for the help.

Elaine

I have ancestry worldwide, or something like that, so that has in the drop down searches 'Military', and I just put in the name, birth date and country.

i have ancestry patchem...sat here for about 3 hrs last night, using that and other sites,but still couldnt find him!

went into military..even went into KOSB site and tried on there.

well done you!

have a copy of his marriage cert to my grandma(he was her 2nd husband--she was widowed after a year--her 1st husband died in WW1)

def. know he's the right one..his eldest daughter(my aunt & godmother)is still living..she 89.

what did you actually put into ancestry?

I put in eli evans.,b.1894.,atherton....but i ploughed through page after page after page and couldnt find him.

thankyou once again

Elaine

This is from ancestry:
Eli Evans
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Age at enlistment: 20
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 17515
Regiment Name: Kings Own Scottish Borderers
Number of images: 4
and then there is an image to examine, so if you had ancestry you found it there.

Reading back over this posting - have you got any birth or marriage certificates to help confirm you are following the correct people?

Eli Evans
England and Wales Census, 1901

birth: 1894 —Atherton, Lancashire
residence: 31 Mar 1901 —Atherton, Lancashire, England
census: 31 Mar 1901 —Atherton, Lancashire, England

record title: England and Wales Census, 1901
name: Eli Evans
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 7
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: Atherton, Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Leigh
sub-district: Atherton
ecclesiastical parish: St John Baptist
civil parish: Atherton
county: Lancashire

seems no-one could solve the above mystery! lol
Funnily enough though,my mums' sister,Irene Evans married Johnny Evans...so never changed her name when she married!

found out today that my grandad,Eli Evans served with the Kings' Own Scottish Borderers(he was born in 1894,so am presuming it must have been in WW1)

My gt uncle on "my other side"(my dads' side)was also in this regiment.

however,I can't for the life of me,remember how I found his details out,just using his name and regiment!

Can anyone help please,by pointing me in the right direction?

Thankyou.

Elaine

i submitted a reply and it seems to have disappeared...i asked how alice was a widow living back home in 1881,then in 1891 she was married to william evans,with 5 children and in 1901 census she was widowed again,with 7 children. is it possible she was married to 2 william evans? we'll see if this gets put up! lol