Find Ancestors

After all the help on here before i am wondering if anyone can do there magic again and help with the impossible...
im trying to find my grandads family
his mum was mary quigley born abt 1911 she was an only child as her mum died in at birth, her fathers name was christopher quigley (christy) and lived on denmark road dublin
his dad was patrick byrne born abt 1910 dont no either his mothers or fathers name just no he had a rather large family i no a few siblings but cant find them in any records
there was a tess byrne/gargin, children shelia gargin 1929 dublin south, and patrick gargin 1931.
there was agnes byrne- married patrick macdonald
a sonny byrne i dont no much just that he lived at kilmainham cotteges dublin.
mary and patrick had 18 children
margaret byrne died age 12
patrick byrne died as a child
christopher byrne 1932
eugine byrne
rita byrne 1939
patrick byrne 1940
frank byrne
eileen byrne 1934
treasa a byrne 1936
pauline a byrne 1946 salford
margaret m byrne 1951 salford
cathrine a byrne 1947 salford
mary/may byrne 1937 salford
cathrine a byrne died 1945

anyone who can help i would be extremley greartful
kelly xx

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

The 1911 Irish census.

There are a dozen+ Patrick Byrnes aged 0 or 1 in Dublin.

All I could suggest is that you look at each one and see whether there is one who has siblings who match the names you have. (Agnes; Tess might be Teresa? Sonny ...?) If Tess had a child in 1929 she was likely born by 1911.

You don't seem to have any of these names in a family tree here at GR -- that would be a good first step, since that way anyone else who searches for them will find you. Have you tried searching trees here? The "Search trees - search all trees" button up at the top.

Residents of a house 16.5 in Chancery St. (Inns Quay, Dublin)
Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Quigley Christopher 42 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic City of Dublin General Labourer Cannot read or write - Married - - - -
Quigley Margaret 27 Female Wife Roman Catholic England - Cannot read or write - Married - 1 1 1
Quigley Mary Female Daughter Roman Catholic City of Dublin - Cannot read or write - - - - - -
O'Brien Maggie 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic



Mary is aged 9 months on the actual image.

thanks i will try both those sugestions x

Good one, rootgather -- I completely failed to remember that Kelly had given Mary's father's name for searching. ;)

i need more help lol i cant find them at all, i no of 2 streets they lived christy quigley lived on denmark road and they also lived in inchicore road and keogh square/ keogh barracks/richmond barracks i no that partick byrne served with the royal irish rifiles and mary byrne came over here to salford in 1944/45 and lived with the macdonaghs her uncle tommy macdonagh had a daughter maggie mac im really stuck at a dead end and its my grandads 80th birthday soon so i would love to be able to find his family history for him
kelly x :D

Kelly, can you try to be just a *little* clearer?

Putting spaces between thoughts (like this) can help the rest of us follow; great big run-on sentences are not easy to weed through.

Mary Byrne lived in Salford with an uncle Tommy (Thomas?) MacDonagh. His daughter was Maggie (Margaret?) Mac (MacDonagh?). Nicknames and short forms don't help us find people.

Was Thomas MacDonagh married to one of Mary's Byrne aunts? Or is he a brother of her MacDonald mother? Or married to a sister of her MacDonald mother? If you know her uncle's name, don't you know her aunt's name?

There is no Thomas MacDonagh death in Salford in the index. (I assume he would be deceased by now.) Are you sure of the spelling?

There are these deaths, for instance:

Thomas Mcdonough (born abt 1911) 1948 Salford Lancashire
Thomas Anthony Mcdonough (born 1923) 1971 Salford Lancashire

Did Mary Byrne stay in Salford? From 1955 to 1965, for example, there are 4 Mary Byrne marriages there.

... or am I completely confused, and it is the mother, Mary Quigley Byrne, and not the daughter, Mary Byrne, that you're talking about??

There are two Margaret McDonagh (spelled that way) marriages in Salford on a search for 1950-1970: in 1960 and 1972.

Most of the information you have given doesn't help strangers help you find people -- things like the streets they lived on in the mid-1900s -- you'd have to actually go to the local library and look at electoral rolls for those addresses around those times. Nobody reading this is going to *know* these people, or say: I remember them! They lived next door ...

Did you try searching in the 1911 Irish census at all to see whether you can find Patrick Byrne as a child? You have to search for a Patrick Byrne aged 1 (it will give you all Patrick Byrnes aged 6 or younger), then look at them, starting from the youngest, and see whether they have siblings with the names you have. You can do that yourself, no need for others to spend the considerable time it could take.

There are so many Patrick Byrne births registered in Dublin around 1910-1911 that there's no way to guess (see below where I searched for Mary Quigley's birth).

You did see that rootgatherer found Mary Quigley's family in 1911 for you? You could also look for Christopher Quigley in the 1901 census to see whether he was with his family, or maybe was previously married.

Doing family history means doing the research!

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home

There's a marriage for the name Christopher Quigley in 1909 in Dublin North, and also a marriage in 1908. Unfortunately, those records don't match grooms to brides; I think you would have to get the certificate.

Mary Quigley was 9 months old when the 1911 census was taken, so she was born in 1910, probably about June or July. This is the only birth that a search for Mary Quigley born in 1910 comes up with that would match (the other was in Jan-March quarter, too early):

Name: Mary Quigley
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1910
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101073
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 463
Digital Folder Number: 4194692
Image Number: 00219
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Again, you would have to get the certificate to get the parents' names. If the father was Christopher, then you would have Mary's mother's full name from that certificate.

Doing family history takes money as well as work, unfortunately!

The Patrick Byrne + Mary Quigley marriage certificate would be another good thing to get hold of. Again, there are so many Patrick Byrne marriages in Dublin around 1930 (you can do the search at the pilot.familysearch link above) ... no way to tell. Even for Mary Quigley arund that time there are several, although not as many.

I have a Mary Quigley search open in one window on one monitor, and a Patrick Byrne search open in another window on the other monitor, and I'm searching year by year for marriages in Dublin, and comparing the results. I know this would be daunting for someone just starting out.

Apr-June 1930, Dublin North -- 2 Mary Quigley marriages
-- 4 Patrick Byrne marriages the same quarter
-- all have different page numbers, I don't know whether that means anything

1929, no MQ and PB marriages in the same quarter/place

July-Sept 1931, Dublin North -- 1 Mary Quigley marriage
-- 2 Patrick Byrne marriages same quarter
-- different page numbers

1932, no MQ marriages in Dublin

1928, no MQ marriages in Dublin

1927 and I may have struck it rich.

Name: Mary Quigley
> Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: MARRIAGES
> Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1927
Film Number: 101576
Volume Number: 2
>>> Page Number: 381
Digital Folder Number: 4199368
Image Number: 00025
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Name: Patrick Byrne
> Registration District: Dublin South
Event Type: MARRIAGES
> Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1927
Film Number: 101576
Volume Number: 2
>>> Page Number: 381
Digital Folder Number: 4199368
Image Number: 00008
Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958


I think that means this is the marriage of your Mary Quigley and Patrick Byrne.

That marriage certificate should give you information you need -- Patrick's father's name in particular. I'm not familiar with Irish certificates at all. Let me look up where to get them ...

Buy on line for €10 (plus postage).

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/find_a_service/bdm/certificates_ie


That is what you have to do to go back farther. We all have to do it -- get certificates that give us the information we don't have and we need. That's how you build the tree!

Once you have the couple's parents' or at least fathers' names, you can try to trace them back.


As far as trying to trace those siblings, children of Mary Quigley and Patrick Byrne, forward, I don't think I have any more helpful suggestions, unfortunately, unless you can clarify that Salford family situation. An idea of their ages and whether they stayed in Salford would help some, maybe.

Well done finding that marriage Janey.

Looks like Christopher had knocked a couple of years off his age in 1911! Here he is in 1901 and he was a widower.

Residents of a house 34.3 in Charles Street (Inns Quay, Dublin)
Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Quigley Mary Ann 30 Female Daughter Romn Catrlih Dublin City Dealer in Fish Read and write - Not Married -
Quarney William 12 Male Grand Son Rom Catholic Dublin City Going to Scoole Read and write - Not Married -
Quigley Mary 53 Female Head of Family Romn Catrlih Dublin City Dealer in Fish Read and write - Widow -
Quigley Christy 35 Male Son Rom Catholic Dublin City Labourer Read and write - Widower -

Name: Christopher Quigley
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1909
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00557


Name: Margaret O'Brien
Registration District: Dublin North
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year: Jul - Sep 1909
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101261
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 539
Digital Folder Number: 4199363
Image Number: 00555

Christopher's Mum has very kindly stated on the 1911 her marriage details although she was widowed.

Residents of a house 24.3 in Chancery St. (Inns Quay, Dublin)
Show all informationSurname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Quigley Mary 63 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Dublin City Dealer in Fish Read and write English Widow - 46 9 4
Quarney William 22 Male Single Roman Catholic Dublin City Labourer-General Read and write English Single - - - -

Aha. I certainly did suspect a previous marriage, given his age.

Kelly's gonna have to do some of the slogging herself at some point though!

Registration started in 1864. I don't see a Christopher Quigley birth/baptism around 1865. Maybe he was even a tad older and born just before registration. The ages look a little rounded -- 30 and 35 ...

There's this Mary Anne Quigley:

MARY ANNE QUIGLEY
Birth: 10 JAN 1868 , Dublin, Ireland
Father: JAMES QUIGLEY
Mother: MARY BENNETT
Batch No.: C014084

and also

MARY ANNE QUIGLEY
Birth: 13 OCT 1871 , , Ireland
Father: JAMES QUIGLEY
Mother: MARY BENNETT
Batch No.: C701465

If the Byrne+Quigley marriage certificate says father James Quigley, that leaves a conundrum. ;)

We're leapfrogging ;) -- are you finding this marriage? It's the only one of Quigley to Mary c1865 showing at pilot.familysearch:

Groom's Name: Peter Quigley
Groom's Birth Date: 1833
Groom's Age: 32
Bride's Name: Mary Cleary
Bride's Birth Date: 1839
Bride's Age: 26
Marriage Date: 30 Jan 1865
Marriage Place: Balbriggan, Dublin, Ireland
Groom's Father's Name: Daniel Quigley
Bride's Father's Name: John Cleary
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70233-2
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
Source Film Number: 101471
Reference Number: p549 ln27
Collection: Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898

but the only birth showing for them is a Catherine in 1873 in Balbriggan.

As you say Janey, Kelly needs to do some work on this herself - why should we have all the fun!

Kelly if you are serious about this hobby, you need to buy some certificates. Irish certificates prior to 1922 are available from the groire in Roscommon. You can but photocopies of the registers quite cheaply. Just google groire for details.

Oh, and you did the matching for the 1909 marriage I hadn't gone back and done. ;)

So that's

Patrick Byrne + Mary Quigley 1927
Christopher Quigley + Margaret O'Brien 1909

marriage certificates for Kelly to get and hope to find more information on.

The marriage certificate will help as we don't know if Margaret O'brien had been married previously or if her daughter Maggie was illegitimate. As Margaret was born in England (although her daughter Maggie was born Dublin) when you get her father's name and occupation it may be possible to identify her on an earlier English census.

OMG thank you so much i think you have found the right marrige in 1927 i am just in the process of ordering it right now and i no i havent been very clear with the names, dates ect, as that is all my grandad can remember now so i have had to ask his sisters children (the ones i can find) to try and clarify the actual dates..
but for all the work you have so far done for me i am truly greatful..
i have been searching myself..
ive got a ring binder full of possible quigleys and byrnes of the irish census website and familysearch.org but as most of you no there wasnt a very lot of records kept...

but i am no in the process of cross checking all the details you have given me and i will keep you all posted on my progress
again mwahh thanks xx

So glad that you are pleased Kelly. From personal experience I know how difficult it is to trace Irish ancestors.

Good luck and yes, please do let us know how you get on.

I have an aunt who was born in Dublin in 1920, and I have FannyByGaslight to thank for pointing out how stupid I was not to have found her birth reg by myself. ;) (Reminded me that she went by her second name, so I was then able to find her and my grmother crossing to Canada.)

And I have a grx4 grfather born in "Ireland" in the 1760s per the early English censuses ... I always mention: if anybody happens to run across a Hugh Morrison, unknown place of birth, unknown parents, married in England and no record of a parent's name ... be sure to let me know! ;)

Looking forward to hearing what the certificates say!

ive found a little bit more info on thomas mcdonagh...
he was mary quigley's (byrne) uncle from marys mother side..

marys mother (?dont no her first name) mcdonagh (maiden name) who married christy quigley died in labour with mary.

as far as my grandad can remember his grandad (christy quigley) lived with them in denmark road/street in dublin ireland and then again when they moved to keogh square/keogh barracks,

my grandad was born in 1931 and he recalls his grandad so he must have died late 1930/ early 1940's.

mary byrne (quigley) and i think about 5 children moved from dublin to salford in 1944/45 whilst patrick byrne (marys husband) was serving in the royal ulster rifiles.
mary went to live with her uncle thomas mcdonagh in salford in woodbine street.

then i think that when patrick byrne finished his service in the army the family then lived together untill patrick died in i think 1958 and then mary died in 1968 in salford.. i hope this makes sense :D

and as for maggie mac (margaret mcdonagh) married twice
1st was to a Gunnie (dont no first name)
2nd was to a fitzgearld (again i dont no of the first name)

i hope this fills in a few blanks janeycanuck
kelly xxx