Find Ancestors

Nudge xx

Hi Chrissie
Thanks for that bit of info but I had already seen it. I have the marriage certificate for William and Catherine and all it says in the "age" column is "full" so that is of no help. It says that William was an Engineer from All Saints, his father was Thomas Appleby who at the time was a Husbandman. Catherine was from the parish of St.John in Newcastle Upon Tyne. Her father was Joseph Porter who was a Cabinet Maker. And the witnesses were Edward and Elizabeth Tomlinson.
I cannot find them in any passenger lists for anytime around their marriage etc plus it looks as though their daughter Jane was born out of wedlock, which seems strange for people that seem to be respectable.
Nicki xx :-S

hello again :-)

so that foreign office record I suggested was indeed mother Catherine

Foreign Office: Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: Cour... FO 847/34/
Estate of Catherine Appleby . Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: court records Estate of Catherine Appleby
Date: 1904


I am afraid I have had to let my Ancestry subscription lapse ... not much more to find for my own tree and no time for it just now anyway ... so I may not be much help

have you found Catherine and William in the 1871 English census ? I am sure we must have been here before but to avoid rereading 3 pages ... I don't see them ... I see her in Durham in 1861, born c1840 Gateshead ...

unless they are there in 1871 it seems to me they must have left the country not long after marriage

Kidd could have been his surname but there is no birth for that name, I think it is much more likely it was just his middle name

I'm stumped, it's looking to me like they did leave the country

How have you determined the parents' names ?

I think I would get their marriage certificate and hope it has William's age and father on it and that would help with trying to find them in case they are in England


here is a William Appleby born in Gateshead with father Thomas who could be a candidate

name: William Appleby
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 22 Oct 1837
baptism/christening place: Gateshead, Durham, England
birth date: 05 Jul 1837
father's name: Thomas Appleby
mother's name: Margaret Appleby
indexing project (batch) number: C00992-1
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 252782

there is also

name: William Appleby
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 03 Feb 1840
baptism/christening place: AYCLIFFE, DURHAM, ENGLAND
father's name: Thomas Appleby
mother's name: Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C02206-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1514573

Hi Ladies and Gents....
Have found out a little more info on the mysterious Jonathan Kidd Appleby. His mother and father were WILLIAM APPLEBY and CATHERINE PORTER. I do know know Williamd d.o.b but Catherine was born in 1841 in Gateshead, Durham. They married in Gateshead in 1868, so that would make Jane born out of wedlock.. I think I have got a name for Williams father, Thomas Appleby but again I dont know any other details.
William and Catherine died in Egypt during the years 1901-1906.
Now the only problem is finding Jonathan Kidds birth, I have looked everywhere but still cannot find any records for him. Do you think that he may of been adopted or that Kidd could be his orginal surname?????
Many kind thanks
Nicki xxx ;-)

Thanks chrissiex,
Yep all the info does fit in really well, except there was such huge age gaps between the siblings, but I suppose if William was off travelling it was to be expected.
Now another snippet of info I found out was that Henry George Appleby 1910 and Gordon Harbon Appleby 1911 were born at Rose Cottage, Cowper Road, Harpenden, Herts, not 24 High Street as first thought. The High Street address was a newsagents owned by an aunt who left the shop to Henry George later in life, and Gordon was given a large sum of money with which he bought a bungalow in Luton Beds.
I dont suppose any of that info is much use, but you clever ones maybe be able to link it up somewhere, lol.
Now when their mother Florence died in c1918 the 2 boys were sent to live with various aunts, maybe these were Janes daughters?? I do have pics of Jonathan Kidd with various different women but my guess is that they were his nieces and sister.
Now to find out info on William and Catherine..................

Kind regards
Nicki xx :-D :-D :-D

an excellent piece of information just as I thought it would be :-)

Gordon S Appleby died in Medway in 1922 aged 39.

he was married in Dec quarter 1910 in Gateshead ... have we determined who to ? Margaret A Rutherford or Sarah R Bramwell ... no births for either one ... could have been a second marriage for the wife given that he was 27 ... or they could have left England ...

I wonder could this be his widow remarrying

Name: Margaret A Appleby
Spouse Surname: Spenceley ... Herbert V Spencely
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1924
Registration district: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 1764

and perhaps her death

Name: Margaret Ann Spenceley
Birth Date: 2 Dec 1884
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1974
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 0522

a matching birth

Name: Margaret Ann Rutherford
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1884
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 55

that was Herbert's only marriage ... so no children from any of these marriages

Name: Herbert Vincent Spenceley
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1892
Registration district: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 5592

Name: Herbert Vincent Spenceley
Birth Date: 23 Sep 1892
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1971
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5f
Page: 536

oh, silly me, the 1911 census saves us the guesswork ( if we had not already done this anyway ! )

APPLEBY GORDON STEWART 1884 27 Medway Kent
APPLEBY MARGARET ANN 1886 25 Medway Kent

so yes that is his marriage and I would think her remarriage and death ... and yes I see I put most of this on page 1 now but this is a good complete summary for Gordon

the only other thing an internet search finds for Gordon Stewart or S Appleby is the London Gazette 1918

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30457/pages/291/page.pdf

it seems to be civil service appointments

Admiralty, HM Dockyards and Naval Establishments
Engin Fitters: ... Gordon Stewart Appleby

maybe he was not as successful as his father and uncle ( the original Appleby Bros ? )


but ... now we know that Jane Appleby Armstrong was also a sister of Jonathan since she was a sister of Gordon ... so maybe trace her descendants ?

in 1901 they were in Gateshead

John T Armstrong 35
Jane Armstrong 37
Lily C Armstrong 10
Evelyn M Armstrong 7
Edith Armstrong 5

and in 1911

ARMSTRONG JOHN THOMAS 1866 45 Gateshead Durham
ARMSTRONG EVELYN MARGARET 1894 17
ARMSTRONG EDITH 1896 15
ARMSTRONG LILY CATHERINE 1891 20

Jane deceased ?


Births Jun 1890
Armstrong Lily Catherine Gateshead 10a 911

Births Jun 1893
Armstrong Evelyn Margaret Gateshead 10a 965

two Edith Armstrongs registered in Gateshead in Dec quarter 1895


in trees here there is

Lily Armstrong 1890 Durham

who is the niece of Jonathan, her mother Jane had the same parents as Jonathan

so that could be someone to contact


there are also

Herbert Spenceley 1893 ?
Herbert Spenceley 1893 Gillingham, Kent, Uk..

and the late 1892 birth of Herbert Vincent Spenceley is the only match ( a Herbert Russell Spenceley was registered in Medway in 1890 so he is the other one in trees )

Hiya All,
The birth certificate for Gordon Stewart Appleby finally arrived, the details are......
Gordon Stewart Appleby born 17th August 1883 at Moharem Bay, near Alexandria, Egypt. But not registered until 18th March 1890, I wonder why?
Parents...William Appleby - Engineer and Catherine Appleby nee Porter.

So it looks as though Jonathan Kidd and Gordon Stewart were indeed brothers. Sadly I still cannot find the birth of Jonathan anywhere, maybe he was registered years later too!!??
I have done a quick search for Catherines birth and marriage but as yet not found anything, I suppose it would help greatly if I knew where/what country she was born it, the same for William.
Again any help is so greatfully appreciated.
Nicki xx :-D

Thank chrissiex,
Im now off to investigate Gordon Stewart and Catherine. Will let you know how I get on.
Nicki xx :-D

passenger lists

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action?

the name on Gordon's death record in the index is definitely HARBORN

oh ... the Gordon A Appleby born in Medway died immediately ..........

I still absolutely do not understand where the record of Gordon Harbon Appleby's birth is in the index ...

( for Henry George, Harpenden is in the registration district of St Albans )

if the child shown in the 1913 passenger records as born 1912 or 1913 is him he may have been younger than he thought he was ... my grandfather was !

or ... born on board ship at some point?

............ and I am still wondering about the Gordon Stewart Appleby marriage certificate ............ if you want to find out more about Jonathan Appleby's parentage it seems to me that is an essential route either to rule Gordon Stewart Appleby out as a brother of Jonathan or if his father was William to pursue that line of investigation which could be quite fruitful ...........

and of course I am still wondering whether you have investigated the death of Catherine Appleby I noted again above ........... who might have been Jonathan's mother ......... or for that matter, the record about the other Appleby I also copied on the previous page to see what connection there might be

Story so far.........
I have Jonathan Kidd Appleby's marriage certificate to Florence Ellen Harbon. They married in Egypt in 1906. His father is listed as William Appleby...Engineer. Florence Ellen died in Zagazig, Egypt in 1918, as listed in the consular records. Jonathan died in Sohag, Egypt in 1929.
Daughter Florence Catherine was born 5/11/1906 also in Egypt.
Son Henry George was definatly born in Harpenden, but on the offical records it says the district of St.Albans, Hertfordshire on 6/02/1910.
Son Gordon Harbon Appleby......according to him he was born in Harpenden too on 12/08/1911 and he died on 14/02/1995, the death date is a definate. I have not been able to find any records of his birth, but he must of been registered somewhere as he had his NI number and he got his pension ok.
The age of Gordon went he went out to Egypt is debatable,(his memory was awful), but he did think he was only 14 as his father was supposed to have met him at the port but never showed up, so Gordon hitched to Cairo to find him, which he did, infact Jonathan was living with an Egyptian lady.
I have the birth certifcates of Henry George and Florence Catherine and the marriage certificates for Jonathan and Gordon. I have yet to get any others
As said I had originally put HARBORN and not Harbon, but looking at the records I now have it was def HARBON.

How or where do I find the passenger lists?
Many thank you's
Nicki <3

this is some slight more detail about the passenger records LadyKira posted before

I am adding the given names for clarity since we know them

voyage 1

APPLEBY Florence Harborn 1874 F 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Florence Catherine 1907 F 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Henry George 1910 M 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Gordon Harborn 1913 M 1913 London Egypt Port Said

voyage 2

APPLEBY Florence Harborn Unknown F 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Florence Catherine 1907 F 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Henry George 1910 M 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY Gordon Harborn 1912 M 1913 London Egypt Port Said

and Jonathan's travels two probably being with the family

APPLEBY J R Unknown M 1910 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY J K 1879 M 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY J K Unknown M 1913 London Egypt Port Said
APPLEBY J K 1882 M 1924 London Egypt Port Said


just to note that Gordon's age worked out to birthdate of 1912 or 1913 so maybe he was born after 1911 but there still just is no matching birth

hello again :-)

I would consider getting this marriage certificate

Marriages Jun 1923
Appleby Jonathan K O'Donnell Medway 2a 1601
O'Donnell Hilda A Appleby Medway 2a 1601

to see who that Jonathan was ( father's name ) and just have one more puzzle piece to fit in

I don't see a death for him in England / Wales ( or Hilda A ) or any births of children with those surnames


Did you obtain the marriage certificate for Gordon Stewart Appleby ? That is the only way to determine whether he was a brother of Jonathan Kidd Appleby.

He was the brother of Jane Armstrong Appleby according to the census and this is probably her birth

Births Dec 1863
Appleby Jane Gateshead 10a 586

( that would translate to 1864 per census age )

if Gordon Stewart Appleby's marriage certificate shows his father was the same William, the birth certificate for the matching Jane Appelby is what you want ... that certificate would show both parents' names

do you have the birth certificates for Henry George 1910 and Gordon Harbon? Appleby 1911? ( Is the GRO index or the freebmd transcription wrong when it says 'Gordon A' Appleby ? ) Do they say that Jonathan Kidd Appleby is their father ? Do you think this is true in fact ? I suppose that if Gordon went to Egypt to meet Jonathan it must be.

or is this some different Gordon 1911 you are talking about, the Gordon A was born in Medway, you still say Harpenden ... can you tell us what evidence you have now got for that birth ?

APPLEBY G H 1911 M 1927 London Egypt Port Said

that makes him 15 or 16 rather than 14 ...

names and birthdates on death records are not always accurate ... we still don't know where you have found Harpenden as the place of birth ...


you have said 'Harbon' for Florence's surname etc in your last post, was it not HARBORN ? ( forgive the capitals but 'rn'(RN) looks so much like 'm'(M) in this type I wanted to be clear )


the daughter Florence Catherine 1906 Egypt ... did you ever investigate this

Foreign Office: Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: Cour... FO 847/34/
Estate of Catherine Appleby . Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: court records Estate of Catherine Appleby
Date: 1904

? it would make sense that Jonathan's mother was a Catherine with his daughter having that name

Hiya All,
Right I have finally found some info........
Jonathan Kidd Appleby was born in 1879, his father was def William Appleby who is listed as an Engineer.
Jonathan married Florence Ellen Harbon in Egypt in 1906. They had a daughter Florence Catherine also in 1906 in Egypy.
Mother Florence returned to England and gave birth to Henry George 1910 the Gordon Harbon in 1911, both boys were born in Harpenden, Hertfordshire. When Gordon was 14yrs old he went alone to Egypt to meet up with his father, who was apparently living with an Egyptian lady. Now nobody knows if they had children or even if Jonathan was divorced from Florence. Jonathan died in Sohag, Egypt in 1929 and is buried in Cario. His job was a Marker or Market Inspector which apparently was a very important job and it is said that him and Florence lived in the Presidential Palace at some time.
If anyone can help in finding any other info on this very secretive family I would be most greatful. I would especially like to find out Jonathans mothers name etc
Thanks very much
Nicki xx :-D

Thank you xx

you order them and pay for them, is the only way, lol

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

'order certificates online'

Chrissiex,
After much trawling through archives and going against what my dad told me, I finally found the marriage of Jonathan and Florence. It DID take place in Cairo, Egypt during 1906-10, but my estimate would be that it was 1906 and probably whilst Florence was pregnant with their daughter who was born in 1906. I only found an entry in the Consular Registry but its a start. Phew thank goodness for that!!
Now just to find out if Jonathan and Gordon were related.
How do I go about viewing the actual certificates etc?
Nicki x

Did Jonathan and Florence stay together?

I'm curious because of this marriage

Marriages Jun 1923
Appleby Jonathan K O'Donnell Medway 2a 1601
O'Donnell Hilda A Appleby Medway 2a 1601

there is no birth of a Jonathan K Appleby in the GRO index

but the marriage is in Medway so maybe he was a son of Gordon Stewart Appleby, if so another indication that Gordon Stewart Appleby was a brother of Jonathan Kid Appleby, they named their sons for each other ........ this Jonathan K could be been born in Egypt ........

......... no, that doesn't work, no Jonathan with Gordon Stewart Appleby in 1911 ......... maybe son of another sibling .........


the National Archives, a good place to search

quick search for Appleby Alexandria

Foreign Office: Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: Cour... FO 847/34/
Estate of Catherine Appleby . Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: court records Estate of Catherine Appleby
Date: 1904

Foreign Office: Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: Cour... FO 847/39/
John Henry Appleby . Consulate, Alexandria, Egypt: court records John Henry Appleby
Date: 1908

I think those records would be well worth having a look at

Hi,
Just to confirm a couple of matters....
Gordon Harborn Appleby born 12/08/1911 was definatly born in Harpenden, Herts.
But according to my father no one has ever found any info on Gordons birth, nor infact Peter Malcolm Appleby or Pauline Applebys birth, this I have to look into further.
The 2nd matter was were Jonathan married Florence..well again my father is 99% certain it was here in England.

LadyKira...I am working on getting the marriage certificate of Gordon Stewart Appleby.

Nicki xx

when you get that cert come back here and we can help with the next step.

good teamwork chrissiex

i did similar

also searched for appleby and place name and used address search .