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Here is Frederick Aldous marriage from www.familysearch


record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Frederick Aldous Breeze
groom's birth date: 1841
groom's age: 55
bride's name: Edith Tizard
bride's birth date: 1856
bride's age: 40
marriage date: 21 Mar 1896
marriage place: St. Mary'S Church, Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
groom's father's name: Frederick Aldous Breeze
bride's father's name: Richard Tizard
indexing project (batch) number: M00067-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 94707




According to the marriage certificate on ancestry, this Frederick was a Bachelor, age 55, a carpenter & Joiner. His father was deceased, and a Stationer



sylvia

I know, it's weird isn't it


I had thought the same as you, that Lionel was an acquired father, and that Frederick Albert was illegitimate


I've looked on several other sites, and there is no sign there of a Lionel James or son Frederick Albert



sylvia

I thought that Susannah with Frederick in 1841 might be a single mother but now that Sylvia has them in 1851 perhaps I am wrong. Could Frederick A Breeze, Hairdresser, have used the names Lionel James in his profession as a hairdresser?

It is so odd that Lionel only appears on the marriage cert?????

In 1871, Frederick Albert was a Railway Storekeeper living in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.


What was his occupation and address on his marriage certificate?



sylvia

This looks like the Frederick that Lynne found on the 1841 Census with mother Susannah


1851 Census

Name: Frederic A Breeze
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Son
Father's name: Frederick A Breeze
Mother's name: Susannah Breeze
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England

Civil Parish: Lowestoft
Town: Lowestoft
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England

Registration district: Mutford
Sub-registration district: Kessingland

Frederick A Breeze 30 Hair Dresser
Susannah Breeze 31
Frederic A Breeze 10
Debia H Breeze 8
Susanna Breeze 6
Joseph A Breeze 3
William E Breeze 1



but equally, this Frederick could be this one from www.familysearch

Frederick Altons Breeze

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

name: Frederick Altons Breeze
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 22 Mar 1841
baptism/christening place: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
father's name: Frederick Altons Breeze
mother's name: Susanna Breeze
indexing project (batch) number: I03224-9
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1545220



Also shown as Frederick Aldous Breeze on his marriage to Edith Tizard in 1896.

so his middle name could be Altons or Aldous




sylvia

Frederick's marriage from www.familysearch

Frederick Breeze


record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973

groom's name: Frederick Breeze
groom's birth date: 1838
groom's age: 24
bride's name: Martha Timms
bride's birth date: 1843
bride's age: 19
marriage date: 1862
marriage place: Chapel En Le Frith, Derbyshire, England
groom's father's name: Lionel James Breeze
bride's father's name: Thomas Timms
indexing project (batch) number: M04851-5
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1041916



sylvia

1841 census -
ABBOTT, Joseph M 50 1791
ABBOTT, Mary F 40 1801
ABBOTT, Lucy F 15 1826
ABBOTT, Edward M 12 1829 Norfolk
ABBOTT, Elizabeth F 7 1834 Norfolk
BREEZE, Susannah F 20 1821
BREEZE, Frederick M 0 (2 months) 1841 Norfolk
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
794 Book/Folio:
49 Page:
2

Registration District:
Great Yarmouth Sub District:
Southern Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
St Nicholas Municipal Borough:
Great Yarmouth Address:
Kemp's Buildings, St Nicholas, Nelson, Great Yarmouth County:
Norfolk

When I search the 1841 census for Frederick Breeze, including all variants, for 1835 +/- 10 years this is the only one I come up with born in Norfolk.

It is very unusual that we cannot find Lionel in any census so could it just be possible that Frederick did not know who his father was and so he made one up? It wouldn't be the first time someone did this He then continued the tradition of naming his first born son after his "father".

Something to consider......?

As requested by Patchem earlier - was Lionel alive or dead on his son's marriage certificate?

Thanks to everyone for their help.This community board is new to me so please forgive me if I get it wrong. We are all on the right track, but I think I need to get into thr Parish records pre 1837

.Frederick married MARTHA TIMMS and the witnesses were GEORGE TIMMS and HANNAH MONK. I have not yet found any siblings of Frederick to date.
Once again thanks for the help and advice
GB

Did Frederick Albert Breeze (c1837) have any brothers or sisters that you know of?

1911 census -
BREEZE, Martha Head Widow F 69 1842 Private Means Chapel En Le Frith
BREEZE, Annie Daughter Single F 42 1869 Private Means Chesterfield
BREEZE, Maud Daughter Single F 39 1872 Private Means Mansfield
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20645 Reference:
RG14PN20645 RG78PN1232 RD430 SD5 ED12 SN111

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Bulwell Enumeration District:
12 Parish:
Nottingham

Address:
12 Ivy Grove County:
Nottinghamshire

Original census states 5 children, all lived

1901 census -
BREEZE, Martha Head Widow F 59 1842
Chapel on Frith
Derbyshire
BREEZE, Lionel J Son Married M 38 1863 Cab Proprietor
Chapel on Frith
Derbyshire
RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3187 Folio:
118 Page:
35

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Bulwell Enumeration District:
6 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Carrington St John the Evangelist

Civil Parish:
Nottingham Municipal Borough:
Address:
36, Loscoe Road, Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire

1891 census -
BREEZE, Martha Head Widow F 48 1843
Chapel-En-Le-Frith
Derbyshire
BREEZE, Annie Daughter Single F 22 1869 Felt Hat Trimmer
Chesterfield
Derbyshire
BREEZE, Maude Daughter Single F 19 1872 Felt Hat Trimmer
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
BREEZE, Albert Son Single M 18 1873 Hatter
Stockport
County Durham
RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2793 Folio:
160 Page:
30

Registration District:
Stockport Sub District:
Heaton Norris Enumeration District:
8 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Christchurch

Civil Parish:
Heaton Norris Municipal Borough:
Stockport Address:
24, Love Lane, Heaton Norris, Stockport County:
Cheshire

Deaths Sep 1884 (>99%)
Breeze Frederick Alfred 51 Darlington 10a 9

1871 census: Living at Quarry Lane, Mansfield:
Frederick 1836 Norfolk
Martha 1843 Derby
Lionel James 1863 Derby
Alfred 1868 Derby
Ann Rebecca 1869

Jayne

P.S - the address they were living at was 4 Whessoe Lane, Darlington!

Hi again, Graham

Here they are . . in Darlington!

Frederick B. 1937 King's Lynn Norfolk (Iron Labourer)
Martha B. 1846 Chapel en le Frith, Derby
Alfred B. 1867 Willington Derby (Turner and Fitter apprentice)
Albert B.1873 South Stockton, Yorks
Annie B. 1869 Whittington Derby
Maude B. 1871 Mansfield, Notts

There are no other census records re this family, and it's probably because they were moving around so much!
Jayne

Hi Graham,
I have several members of the Norfolk Breeze family on my tree, but I'm not sure if it might be able to help you. The registration district in which I currently live used to come under King's Lynn or Wisbech, which can be quite confusing as to where their actual birthplace may be. I will take a look and see if I can come up with anything for you.
Best wishes
Jayne

I'm also stumped Graham! can't see any sign pf a lionel breeze or Frederick either on previous census or IGI.
Jan

Was Lionel alive or dead on his son's marriage certificate?
Thanks