Find Ancestors

This one born 30 Jan. 1892. Address hard to make out 175 Ladbroks? Grove Rd. Father now a court shoemaker.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Minnie Sammons
Name: Minnie Sammons
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1892
Baptism Date: 3 Apr 1892
Father's name: Thomas Sammons
Mother's name: Annie Sammons
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

Interesting - I dismissed the 1886 baptism as Albert Edward's father is descrbed as a shoe maker, NOT a violinist as he is in 1901, but the baptism date as pointed out by Margaret M is the same (23rd Feb 1886) as that provided in the bibliographic details by Woody.

So I eat a dose of humble pie!

It just seemed too great a leap from Shoemaker to Violinist

This one born 4 May 1884, 259 Lancaster Rd., father a shoemaker.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Thomas Sammons
Name: Thomas Sammons
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1886
Baptism Date: 24 Mar 1886
Father's name: Thomas Sammons
Mother's name: Annie Sammons
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill St Clement
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea

In the 1891 census, Margaret, the family are living at what looks like
175 Ledbroke Grove Road and the father Thomas is listed as a 'Musician'....so it looks like Minnie is also a sibling to Albert.

EDIT

Also there are the following living at the same address

Albert Sammons single aged 23 occ Boot Closer b Cheltenham Gloucester
George Sammons single aged 20 occ Boot Closer b Worcestershire Union
Caroline Sammons single aged 25 occ Boot Machinist b Worcs Fish (looks like)
These three are listed as brothers and sister....so are they related to Thomas?

Looks like the children of Thomas the Shoemaker are the same children asthose of Thomas the violinist then.

Am struggling to get into the 1891 census to check his occupation then.

EDIT: Crossed with Londonbelle's posting - she's confirmed the two families are the same with the address.

Minnie is presumably the fifth child mentioned in my 1911 transcript, one child having died before the census.

Death: Sammons Minnie 0 Kensington 1a 75 JAS 1892.

"Albert Sammons single aged 23 occ Boot Closer b Cheltenham Gloucester
George Sammons single aged 20 occ Boot Closer b Worcestershire Union
Caroline Sammons single aged 25 occ Boot Machinist b Worcs Fish (looks like)
These three are listed as brothers and sister"

Brother and sister to Thomas, head of the family, rather than to Minnie etc al???

"Albert Sammons single aged 23 occ Boot Closer b Cheltenham Gloucester"


This solves another mystery, as I'd found a marriage of an Albert Edward Sammons son of Thomas Sammons Bootmaker, but now it seems it's this chap, Albert 1886's uncle, the boot closer.

Name: Albert Edward Sammons - boot closer
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Spouse Name: Jessie Middleton
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Sep 1901
Parish: St Peter, Paddington
County: London
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Thomas Sammons - boot maker
Spouse Father Name: Percy Charles Middleton - boot maker

Still not having much luck finding 'runaway' Thomas Sammons c 1863 the former shoemaker turned violinist in census 1911.

This could be Thomas' marriage to Annie as Nora in the 1901 census is living with a family called Jackson (Head was born Puckeridge Herts same place Annie was born) and she is listed as Neice

Name: Thomas Sammons occ Bootmaker
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Spouse Name: Anne Jane Jackson
Spouse Age: 25 (age looks like 28 on image)
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 06 Nov 1883
Parish: St Luke, Deptford
County: Kent
Borough: Lewisham
Father Name: Thomas Sammons occ Bootmaker
Spouse Father Name: George Jackson (deceased) occ Farmer
Address for both: 2 Fairys Buildings Deptford (looks like)

The Thomas Sammons - Anne Jackson marriage looks extremely likely both for the reasons Londonbelle has already stated, and the fact that both Thomas Sammons' father is given as Thomas Sammons Bootmaker, as is (his brother) Albert Edward Sammons's father in the marriage I posted above.

Annie's death ref gives her second inital as J (for Jane?)

Death: Sammons Annie J 66 Kensington 1a 294 JFM 1917.

Further supporting Londonbelle's marriage

Wikipedia (ok, not perhaps the best source!) says Thomas Sammons Senior was a shoe maker and good amateur violinist and "walked out to join the band on an ocean liner", which could explain why I can't find him in 1911, if he were at sea.

Nora Sammons in census 1911?

PENFOLD, William Thomas Head Married M 33 1878 Examing Officer 2nd Class Hm Customs London
PENFOLD, Gertrude Wife Married F 27 1884 Cavendish Suffolk
AMBROSE, Margaret Visitor Sister-In-Law Single F 23 1888 Nil Cavendish Suffolk
HEXTER, Edith Rebecca Sister Married F 30 1881 London
HEXTER, Mary Frances Niece F 0 (7 MONTHS) 1911 Seven Kings Ilford
>>>SAMMONS, Nora Visitor Single F 23 1888 Nil London .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:
224 Victoria Avenue Princes Avenue Hull

As you say, Kucinta, not the best source but it does fit in with what we have found so far!

Late marriage for Nora (death info tallies with birthdate on baptism ref):

Gorton Edwin A P Sammons Paddington 1a 77 JAS 1929.
Sammons Nora L Gorton Paddington 1a 77 JAS 1929.

Death:
Name: Nora Louisa Gorton
Birth Date: 1 Oct 1887
Death Registration Month/Year: 1976
Registration district: Ealing
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 12
Page: 0297

death of Thomas Sammons Jr (c1886)?:

Name: Thomas Sammons
Death Registration Month/Year: 1963
Age at death (estimated): 79
Registration district: Kensington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 981

Thomas Sammons in census 1871:

Name: Thomas Sammons
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's name: Thomas Sammons
Mother's name: Leonard Sammons [Leonora]
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcester, Worcestershire, England


Household Members: Name Age

Thomas Sammons 37 c1834 Worcester, Worcestershire, England. Boot closer

Leonard Sammons 27 wife c1844 Lancashire, England. (Leonora on image)

>>>Thomas Sammons 7 c1864 Worcester, Worcestershire, England.

Caroline Sammons 5 c1866 Worcester, Worcestershire, England.

Albert Sammons 3 c1868 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England.

Alfred Sammons 2 c1869 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England.

Address 37 Hanover St, Cheltenham.


Marriages Mar 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>NIMMO Leonora Worcester 6c 345
PROSSER Edith Isabella Worcester 6C 345
PROSSER William Worcester 6C 345
>>>>SAMMONS Thomas Worcester 6c 345


Death: Sammons Leonora 47 Chelsea 1a 374 JFM 1892.


Leonora, Thomas and family in census 1881:

Name: Leonora Sammon
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas Sammon
Gender: Female
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Kensington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 11 Absalom Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married

Thomas Sammon 46
Leonora Sammon 34
Thomas Sammon 18
Albert Sammon 14
Alfred Sammon 13
George Sammon 10
Florence Sammon 4

Wow,
You have all been very busy.
Thank you Helen, I forgot you earlier, also a big thanks to Margaret, Kucinta, Londonbelle for all the info you have found,
I am amazed by all the info you found.
Again a huge thank you to all of you.
Ann

I hope you don’t think this cheeky after all you have done for me, but please can someone look for Nora & the Jackson family

Londonbelle "found Nora [Sammons b 1887] in the 1901 census is living with a family called Jackson Head was born

Puckeridge Herts same place Annie was born) and she is listed as Niece" I cant find her in the index!
Think you ,
Ann