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This has reminded me ....recently I saw an actually baptism entry from mid 1800's for an EFFEL! Someone obviously couldn't pronouce their 'th's'. Cx

Oh! So Henia might be Enia / Ina -- Thomasina!

I was saying in another thread yesterday how we have to remember the Haitches in the case of Helen/Ellen/Eleanor, Anna/Hannah, Esther/Hester, all of which are interchangeable in records in the 19th century.

So this does make sense, as Henia matches Thomasina in the other ways.

The thing with Hethel M Pile is that he was actually ... a he. ;) According to the census. Which seems to be incorrect. Ah yes indeed, "he" is clearly entered in the female column on the original page, and Ancestry decided to ignore that. So yes, Ethel Maud Pile was registerd Q1 1881 in Leeds.

In Scotland the usual abbreviation for Thomasina would be Ina. So going along the lines of Ethel being Hethel, it looks like someone had a habit of adding "H" when pronouncing a name begining with a vowel.

You don't think Henia is some bizarre nickname for Thomasina,do you??

Hethel is obviously Ethel??? (My grandmother was forever sticking "hs" in where they didn't belong.)

Maureen

Good grief, how many ways can one entry be *ed up!

And six births to that couple, 1928-1942.

Name: Henry J Fairclough
Death Registration Month/Year: 1949
Age at death (estimated): 44
Registration district: Sunderland
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 1a
Page: 1131

Name: Henry J Faircolough
Spouse Surname: Pyle
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1928
Registration district: Sunderland
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1328
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Same yr and Qtr from FreeBMD
Pyle Thomassina G Fairclouth Sunderland 10a 1329

Maureen

Yeah, Henia = Emily is a bit of a stretch. ;)

I couldn't make much of tihs one in 1881, either:

Hethel M. Pile

I wouldn't say Hethel, but I don't know what I would say, from the image. I couldn't make it read Hester, for example.

Since they tended to name children after one another, I wonder whether Henia and Hethel are actually the same name ... whatever it might be!

You may have the 1911 Linda but we dont and It makes it so much easier trying to find people if we have the facts in front of us. Yes I also looked at Henia and I dont think its Emily as I have found her with her parents.



jax

Janey

I cannot keep up with you!

I have amended the information on the two girls
I am distantly related but so curious with them having Goodall as middle name even though I have no connections whatsoeverwith it.

Sunderland is Just over the river tyne from me so I will try and make that trek on friday to the library.

I will send you my Email.
Linda.

"Henia" has to be a mistranscription, Linda.

This is the only birth that fits:

Births Jun 1908
Pyle Emily Sunderland 10a 819

Look look!

Name: Thomasina Goodall Henry
Birth Date: 7 Nov 1907
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 2003
Age at death (estimated): 95
Registration district: Sunderland
Inferred County: Durham
Register number: E65E
District and Subdistrict: 058/1E
Entry number: 165


Name: Thomasina G Fairclough
Spouse Surname: Kenry -- obviously Henry: James D Henry
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1952
Registration district: Sunderland
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 1658

Haven't figured out where the Fairclough came from ...

Hello Jax
I have all the info on 1911 census sent to me thanks.
I checked the birth of Henia 1908 Sunderland and cannot find it
I have never heard of that name.

Thank you
Linda.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: PYLE, Charles
Address: 54 Northumberland St Sunderland


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PYLE, Charles Head Married M 33 1878 Window Cleaner Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Harry Ann Wife Married
15 years F 33 1878 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Charles Son M 13 1898 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Gladys Eva Daughter F 11 1900 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Thomas Son M 9 1902 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Harold Son M 6 1905 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Henia Daughter F 3 1908 Sunderland County Durham VIEW
PYLE, Winnie Daughter F 1 1910 Sunderland County Durham VIEW

6 children all living

And now I'm zonked and starving and am going home to eat, watch Coronation Street, play with kittens and sleep. ;)


Linda -- I'd missed your note about the closure for Thomasina.

Yes -- but she did live a long life!

And it's still possible she was the mother of the other Thomasina.

That's one birth certificate I'd be interested in getting, if it were me. Not sure how close your connection with them is.

You can be surprised, though.

My famous (here at GR) gr-grf Ernest Augustus Hill who decided to be Ernest Augustus Monck emigrated temporarily to Australia in 1887. A few months later, a birth was registered in London: Erna Augusta Mouch. Then the child died in the next quarter as Erna Augusta Monch. Well, "Monch" nad "Mouch" are well-known mistranscriptions of Monck, among othes. So I was madly curious -- who had had this child named for my gr-grfather when he was in Australia? Had his sister, who had also changed her name to Monck before she married, and whom I'd lost sight of after 1883 (although her husband managed to go bankrupt and change his own name by 1891), possibly survived and had another child?? I sent off for the certificate, I waited 3 months (I'm in Canada, but 2 weeks is standard), I enquired, it had been lost in the mail, they sent it again ... and sure enough, she really was Erna Augusta Monch, daughter of European immigrants, nowt to do with my Ernest.

But that Thomasina, really, she's connected *somehow*!

No, they aren't, Linda!

You're taking that from the 1881 census, apparently. See back on page 2. The two girls were LILIA JANE and LAURA ELIZABETH, and I've given their correct births.

And full names are good. That's why we have FreeBMD!

Births Mar 1877
PILE Charles Tonkinson Sunderland 10a 667

Marriages Sep 1896
Borrett William Sunderland 10a 825
Dodsworth Mary Ann Sunderland 10a 825
Jones Alice Jane Sunderland 10a 825
PYLE Charles Tonkinson Sunderland 10a 825

Births Sep 1897
Pyle Charles Tonkinson Sunderland 10a 629


Good chance Thomasina Jr is his it seems.


1911

PYLE CHARLES 1878 33 Sunderland Durham
PYLE HARRY ANN 1878 33 [sic]
PYLE CHARLES 1898 13
PYLE GLADYS EVA 1900 11
PYLE THOMAS 1902 9
PYLE HAROLD 1905 6
PYLE HENIA 1908 3
PYLE WINNIE 1910 1

1911 census transcription details for: Spring Head Meltham
RG14PN26206 RG78PN1515 RD495 SD2 ED5 SN291


Reg. District: Huddersfield Sub District: Honley
Parish: Meltham Enum. District: 5
Address: Spring Head Meltham
County: Yorkshire (West riding)
Quite clearly Greenhough on image.
GREENHALGH, William Head Married M 37 1874 Compositor In The Printing Trade Yorks Batley
GREENHALGH, Laura Elizabeth Wife Married
15 years F 39 1872 Durham Sunderland
GREENHALGH, Eda Daughter F 14 1897 Errand Girl At The Mill Yorks Leeds
GREENHALGH, Ethel Daughter F 12 1899 School Part Time Spool Hand Tucketer Yorks Leeds
GREENHALGH, Winnifred Cora Daughter F 8 1903 School Yorks Meltham

3 children = all living.

Maureen

Girls are
Frances ann 1863
Margaret Hannah 1865
winifred harriet 1867
Lillian 1870
Louisa 1872
Thomasina Goodall 1874
>>>>>>>>>>Charles T 1877
Ethel Maud 1881
Eva 1888

Check back to the end of p 1 -- I've been assembling info on Laura (not Louisa)!

(And I've added more -- remarriage and death.)

I was thinking on the child Thomasina Goodall pyle 1907 Middlesbrough.

This is what I have;

Charles Tonkinson Pyle b1840 SUNDERLAND married
Hannah Maria Goodall b1843 Scotland.
they married 13 Jul 1862 NEW WORTLEY. LEEDS

They went on to have 8 girls including Thomasina 1874 and only
one Boy called Charles Tonkinson Pyle who married Maryann Dodsworth
in 1896 SUNDERLAND

kind regards
Linda

Marriages Mar 1896
GREEN Jonas Leeds 9b 496
GREENHOUGH William Leeds 9b 496
Pyle Laura Elizabeth Leeds 9b 496
Shackleton Ada Leeds 9b 496


1901

William Greenhough 27
Laura E Greenhough 29
Eda Greenhough 4
Ethel Greenhough 2

Civil Parish: Meltham
County/Island: Yorkshire
Registration district: Huddersfield


Can't find her in the 1911 on a quick search, or find a death or remarriage for Laura E Greenhough.


Ah, later than expected.

Marriages Jun 1931
Greenhough Laura E Redfern Manchester S. 8d 325
Redfern John C Greenhough Manchester S. 8d 325

Name: Laura E Redfern
Death Registration Month/Year: 1940
Age at death (estimated): 69 = dob c1871
Registration district: Salford
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 978