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that explains him going to live with the sisters of mercy then is there any way of finding any records of were he was with the sisters of mercy . julie

Oh clever you Helen. That may be why he was in an orphanage.

Have to go to bed now but looking forward to any more developments and trying to help:)

For interest: Scotlandspeople

There is a death for:

Mary Ann Kelly / Gordon / O'Neil (cross-ref names)
1914
County: Angus
District: Arbroath

Age 52yrs (born c.1862 for purpose of 1891 census)

So if this is proved to be Neil Kelly's mother, she died when he was 11yrs old.

Sorry - I got called away before I got chance to look into the census etc.
Anyway I hope when you get the marriage certificate for Neil it will prove to be the right birth Julie.

p.s. It's Chris by the way:)

christine 2 has the right one i just no it .i am so exited julie.

Not seeing a Charles Kelly in Arbroath in 1891.

So from C2's info, we have mother Mary Ann who was born O'Neal, who was formerly married to Gordon, and then married Kelly, although when is confusing.

There are several Charles Kellys with wife Mary in 1901, but none in Angus. Or Edinburgh.

This household in Wigtown has sons who match the names Julie had:

Charles D Kelly 57 - born Wigtown, Sculptor
Mary Kelly 33
Mary Mc C Kelly 14
James Kelly 12
Charles Kelly 9
Thomas A Kelly 6
Helen D Kelly 5
Isabella Kelly 3
Beatrice Kelly 1
Margarite P Kelly 1mo

but that seems rather unlikely.

From the names, it's sounding like the parents were Irish.

No likely O'N*l or Gordon in Arbroath either.

If the English marriage certificate doesn't help, Julie may just have to wait a bit for the 1911 Scottish census.

thank you so much you dont no how happy you have made me i no thats my grandad julie

That was kind of you to download the certificate, Christine.

Janey, can you see the two families mentioned in the 1901 census .. in the previous 1891 census.

There might be mention of a Charles Kelly.

Mary Ann O'Neil/Gordon and Charles Kelly were married in the district of St Andrew (Edinburgh) in 1899.

Hi Julie

I just happened to have 5 spare credits on Scotlands people and this is what it says for the birth that Helen found.
The exact date of birth is unreadable (I have informed scotlands people) but it says Neil Kelly born July? twentieth? 1903 at - then the address is unreadable apart from Arbroath. Father Charles Kelly - General Labourer - mother (and this bit isn't terribly clear) Mary Ann Kelly, formerly Gordon. Then underneath that it says M.S. O'Neal, then underneath that it says married March 24th (1894 or 1899) Edinburgh. Registered by Mary A Kelly - Mother - on 1st August at Arbroath.

I will let you know if they get back to me with the details after my complaint about the quality.

thanks so much i feel iam getting some were now i have always wondered why he was with the sisters of mercy i do hope i find out julie

Hopefully so, Helen, and hopefully Julie will get the marriage certificate so we can help her investigate further.

There seem to be two Kelly households in Arbroath in 1901.


James Kelly 54 - born Ireland
Jessie I Kelly 37 - born Dundee
Jessie A Kelly 31
Beatrice Kelly 15
Matthew M Kelly 13
James T Kelly 11
Williamina C Kelly 9

John Kelly 53 - born Crieff
Jane Kelly 50 - born Dundee
Alice Kelly 19
Francis Kelly 16
Harrwood Kelly 13
George Kelly 11
Peter Kelly 7

The second couple would not have been having more children, but one of their older children could be a parent of Neil.

Possible the father's name and occupation on the marriage certificate will marry up with the information from the Arbroath birth certificate ...

Taking it Arbroath is the correct location ... there was no verification given.

So it seems I found the right marriage and deaths -- but they married and died in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. (It was Charlotte Candrick, per the index at Ancestry.) Can you just tell us that -- that's the right marriage and the right deaths?


Looks like it is -- Charlotte's birth:

Name: Charlotte Candrick
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 709

matches this death:

Name: Charlotte Kelly
Birth Date: 7 Jun 1901
Death Registration Month/Year: 1978
Registration district: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 8
Page: 0183


You need to get the marriage certificate. It will tell you Neil's age and father's name and occupation.

Name: Neil Kelly
Spouse Surname: Candrick
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1924
Registration district: Mansfield
Registration county (inferred): Nottinghamshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 239

You order it here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

When you get that certificate, you can just come on back to the thread and tell us what it says!

neil kelly was married to charlotte cendrick who lived in pontlotin in wales

thanks to every one for helping just hope i find out more about my grandad julie

Julie PMed thanks.

If you do have any more info, or replies to suggestions, be sure to add it here!

Julie, do you know when and where he died?

If the person who registered his death knew his date of birth, it would be in his death record (if after 1969 -- before that, it would show his age).

There are very few Neil Kellys in the England/Wales death index. This is the only one that fits the age:

Name: Neil Kelly
Death Registration Month/Year: 1967
Age at death (estimated): 63 = dob 1903/4
Registration district: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 190

That matches with a marriage to a Charlotte Candrick and death of Charlotte Kelly. There's no Neil Kelly birth in Nottinghamshire. So if that is him, the marriage details, for ordering the certificate, are:

Marriages Dec 1924
Candrick Charlotte Kelly Mansfield 7b 239
Kelly Neil Candrick Mansfield 7b 239

Or did he return to Scotland ....

Do you mean Arbroath in the county of Angus.

There is one match for a birth on Scotlandspeople:

Neil Kelly
1903
County: Angus
District; Arbroath

You would be able to download and view this birth certificate ... although I don't know how you would prove it was your person.

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

£6 for 30 credits
1 credit to view the index
5 credits to view the certificate

Scottish birth certificates register the parents date and place of marriage.

And for those of us who haven't a clue -- Arbroth? Arbroath, maybe? Scotland? That's the only thing I can think of, and only because that's what Google offers me.

And for Pontlottin, it offers me Pontlottyn, Wales, which Wiki says is in the county borough of Caerphilly, within the historic county boundaries of Glamorgan.

Good to know.

As Madmeg says, his marriage certificate is where you need to start, and hope that he knew his father's name and reported it.

If you happen to know his parents' names, that would of course be worth mentioning.

The marriage cert of Neil and your grandmother might have his father's name on it. That will help to trace the family further.