Find Ancestors

Not had any luck in finding Fanny Bufton who was a definite match to your witness on the marriage cert.

Congratulations enjoy.

It will be interesting to see if that could be her birth cert I will have a look at those names tomorrow. We are out today celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary.

Hi Jan Yes I do have the certificate and they are the witnesses when my gran married my grandfather (William Phillips) . I assumed they were maybe a couple, probably friends I think i did do a search some time ago but could not come up with anything very much.

The marriage to Ernest Edwins had witnesses Edward St Roas and Fanny Bufton. I could not locate anything on Fanny but did manage to track down the family of Edward St Roas. Apparently he was the black sheep of the family he was a seaman and west Indian I believe. The St Roas family did not have anyone alive that actually knew a great deal of him. and the person I had contact with states that she married into the family so knew very little about him. I did check the electoral rolls in Glamorgan archives when I was overseas once. I found that my gran had lived at the same address as Edward St Roas in Margam street, Langynwyd in the village of caerau in 1915/16. I could not go back any further due to lack of records because of the first world war. By they way I have now contacted the GRO about my grans birth certificate as mentioned above but havent heard back yet. thanks again.

Have you got her marriage cert to Ernest Edwins? I wonder who John henry davies and ellen may davies. were, the witnesses to her marriage to William Phillips
.

Hi dea, just checked the previous certificates I have in my possession that I know arnt my family. I have located one with mother Mary Jane Thomas formerly Vaughan which I believe to be the one you are referring to above. It show childs name as annie father thomas thomas but annies dob is 23/01/1900 so unfortunately it is not our family. thank you anyway.

Hi Jan I have just had an email from Glamorgan archives who have done a search for me in regard to Annie Ellens school record shown above here posted by Erika.. The date of birth is correct with my annie ellen but the year is 1897 and not 1896. They state the year could be a mistake. They agree with you that its a possibility that mothers name was Jones. They have located a marriage between Thomas Richard Thomas to an Ellen Jones which took place in the registration district of Pwllheli in the December ¼ of 1888. (My family are insistent that our thomas and ellen came from snowdonia. This information seems close to that area. My thomas was Thomas Robert Thomas according to annie Ellens marriage certificate unless it was a mistake on her part. The family in relation to that school report Glamorgan archives indicate had 9 children and only one survived and thomas and ellen were born in north wales and annie ellen from cefn coed. Also in the 1911 census it indicates that thomas and ellen had been married for 22 years which then indicates approx 1888. They have asked me now to get the registrar to check my annies date of birth against this one DECEMBER ¼ 1897 – Thomas, Ellen, District of Merthyr Tydfil, 11a 732. Yours seem more likely as my grandmother in all certificates I have, have always used annie ellen as her name. I do believe the registrar will not check specific references but if you ask them to search 1896 - 1897 for our date of birth they will tell you if the details fits so I think this is the only option here what do you think?

Dea I had not seen the info you posted above but will research that as I do not know of any siblings.

Now gro gives mothers maiden on birth index. Is this possible

THOMAS, ANNIE ELLEN mothers maiden name JONES
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in ABERAYRON Volume 11B Page 36
Marriages Sep 1896
Possible parents
Jones Ellen Aberayron 11b 70 ****
Jones Margaret Aberayron 11b 70
Jones Rees Aberayron 11b 70
Thomas Thomas Aberayron 11b 70 ****

I have a feeling that this might be 'that' Annie but have to go so can't check any further at the moment:

Name: Annie Thomas
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Beaufort, Breconshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Cardiff
Search Photos: Search for 'Cardiff' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 30 Brithdir St Cathays Cardiff
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Apprentice
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 02
Household schedule number: 41
Piece: 32101
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Jane Thomas 40
John Edgar Thomas 19
Stephen Joseph Thomas 17
Annie Thomas 15
Harold Thomas 11




Results:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
THOMAS, ANNIE BISHOP Order
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 87 Order

THOMAS, STEPHEN JOSEPH BISHOP Order
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in CRICKHOWELL Volume 11B Page 102 Order


??????
Marriages Dec 1890 (>99%)
Bishop Mary Jane Crickhowell 11b 259 Scan available - click to view ***
Clarke James Crickhowell 11b 259 Scan available - click to view
Thomas Evan Crickhowell 11b 259 Scan available - click to view ***
Thomas Rachel Ann Crickhowell 11b 259 Scan available - click to view



Dea x

Hi Austin, I am still trying to find the birth reference on the family above where annie was born in brecknock vaynor. What do you think of this info

Annie Thomas
Registration Year:
1896
Registration Quarter:
Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district:
Crickhowell
Parishes for this Registration District:
View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County:
Breconshire
Volume:
11b
Page:
87

HI Austin, that is weird as my gran was living at 35 Margam Street Caerau in 1917 which is appearing on her marriage certificate to Ernest Edwins. Not only that the witnesses were Edward St Roas and Fanny Bufton. The granddaughter of Edward St Roas stated he was West Indian. a seaman and the family did not know very much about him at all as the older members of the family are all deceased

I also got an email from Glamorgan records today indicating that there probably isn't too much more that will be in annies school record apart from that information from find my past. However, they have asked me what I am looking for and they will have a look and let me know what extra info they will have. Anyway thanks again for this info.

It is certainly worth checking- I just meant that if they were only there for such a short time, there might be no other record for them there.

There are a few other children at the same school that give Picton Inn as their address- but I don't see any other Thomas children with that address.
--------------------------

Not related to Annie's birth, but thought this was related- it was the address that I noticed:

The Glamorgan Gazette 13th July 1917
Edward St. Roas was fined £1 for stealing a piece of timber, value Is, from North's Navigation Collieries Co. Defendant (a coloured man), a labourer, lives at 35 Margam Street, Caerau. Mr. King Davies conducted the prosecution.

thanks Austin I have annie ellen in caerau in 1915 at her sons birth and then the electoral roll 1917 in trethomas bedwas. Just not sure where the family was prior to that. Annies father was a miner and the home in trethomas was because of his work. I always thought the family were church of England but I think its worth checking that school record. thanks again

Looking at the original school record for St Mary's RC it says she was registered from 2nd March 1908 and that her last attendance at the school was 16th April 1909- reason: left district. So they weren't there very long.

Hi Austin yes this is the family in cefn isaf cefn cocd . It has all the relevant names but I thought of ordering annie ellens birth certificate as this is the only way to eliminate this family. Unfortunately I could not locate the birth as it would be probably Merthyr Tydfil area. I did find one in Pontypridd but am pretty sure that is a different family and date of birth is early in 1896. Also I will check the newspapers did not think of that one. thanks again.

Erika I am also interested in the school report that you have put on here (see above) as it does have my grandmothers dob.as near as one can ascertain. So would like to get a search done on this to see if I can get more info. I have contacted Glamorgan records for a search form so I can get the wheels turning as I do not live in wales.

Gwen I do not think my gran was RC but worth a check I did try and do a search for that address e.g. picton inn but could not come up with anything but did not have sufficient time to look thoroughly so will try again with a search on Picton street, Cardiff.

Dea yes I agree and also Picton Inn – Merthyr Tydfil – aberaman – nantyffyllon. so I have a few hints to look into .


Thanks everyone for your help

To save me reading through the whole thread- is it this family you're looking into?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
15a Cefn Isaf Cefn Cocd Merthyr Tydfil, Vaynor, Glamorganshire, Wales

Thomas Thomas Head Married Male 45 1866 Carnarvon Llanyslan Fireman Below Ground
Ellen Thomas Wife Married Female 45 1866 Denbigshire Llan -
Annie Ellen Thomas Daughter Single Female 15 1896 Brecknock Vaynor

EDIT- no worries, I've just seen it is this family

It was in Merthyr.

Try looking in the newspapers- quite a few mentions of it:

http://newspapers.library.wales/

The Merthyr Express
26th March 1910

"William Thomas^ landlord of the General Picton Inn,; Merthyr, said the defendant came to his house with some of the goods named. After she left he found papers on the floor which bore prose- cutor's name"
---------------------------

General Picton Inn was on Picton Street

The school was in Merthyr Tydfil so Picton Inn must have been there also?

Dea x

As the Inn is mentioned in Glamorgan registers and seems to be for a Roman Catholic school, Picton Inn is likely to be in or near a town having separate faith schools.
Cardiff might be a likely area,

Anyone know where Picton Inn is ?