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Yep that's them - my dad and his brother!
Would ordering any of the certificates I could order - birth certificates for my dad and his brother or Barnett's death cert help me to find more details?
I'm guessing the marriage cert would be the best, if I ever manage to find the right marriage!

Both births are there Michael, yes i agree it would be strange.....was also wondering Judith if you had checked crematorium records.......not sure of the |Jewish standing on this one though.

Annx

Name: Jeffrey Shapiro
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cohen
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1939
Registration district: Hitchin


Stanley Shapiro
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cohen
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1935
Registration district: Hackney

Jeffrey's birth is under the 3rd q 1939

Can't see it being the Barnett Abrahams marriage really ....
...... if he married under the name Abrahams, why is the son Shapiro ??

Very strange.

I can see Stanley's birth but not Jeffrey's

That's definitely worth a search, I mean I am Shapiro but there are at least 14 recognised spellings of our name - Shopiro being one of them.
I understand also that Barnett had one sister but again my uncle can't remember too much about het name - he thinks it may have been Doreen but that's a long shot!
Have even been trying to find out from the few older relatives if he spoke with an accent - thought that would maybe be a clue as to him being born here/arriving as a small child as opposed to being a teenager.
Thank you for looking!

Thats a good one Carol!!

Michael,

Thats the one I posted at the top of the thread...........makes you wonder, right area right brides name right grooms first name etc lol!

Annx

The last one definitely!
She had 2 sons:
Stanley b 1st q 1935
Jeffrey b 1939

3 out of 4 names on that one! I also found a suspiscious enrty when I was looking as if a mistake had been made but discounted it, maybe I should go search for it again. How likely is it that a mistake can be made on these records?

hi here are 3 possible births for your Uncle

which one is him?

Mother's Maiden Surname: Rivlin
Date of Registration: 1933
Registration district: Manchester N

Mother's Maiden Surname: Nitka
Date of Registration: 1938
Registration district: Hackney

Mother's Maiden Surname: Cohen
Date of Registration: 1939
Registration district: Hitchin

???????????????????

Marriages Mar 1930
Abrahans Barnett - Cohen Stepney 1c 448
Cohen Rachel - Abrahams Stepney 1c 448

Hi Annx, from what I can make out he was a jewish version of Del boy! and used to use aliases - I'm guessing to avoid gambling debts. They were definitely both jewish and definitely got married in a synagogue, unfortunately most of the old E London synagogues don't exist anymore.

I'm 99% certain about the 1904 birth as my uncle remembered he was a relatively young man (53) when he died. He believes he arrived in the UK just before WW1
If I can manage to send off for a death certificate what would that tell me about him?

Judith,

With you saying he changed his name.........I did the search on her...were they both Jewish?

I have had records of marriage where a surname has been changed for whatever reason.........all long shots that sometimes pay off if checked lol!

sorry have just seen you said they were both Jewish!

Annx

Nope, she definitely wasn't married twice - she would have arrived in the UK around 1904 - she was born st George in the East in 1908 - I have her entire family on the 1911 census

Thanks for looking - it can't be the Mar 1935 one, they were both religious jews and as my dad was born Jan 1935 they would have been married before the spring of 1934.
The area sounds right = Stepney but there's no mention of the Shapiro surname

Was your grandmother married twice ?


Marriages Mar 1936
Bernstein Rachel -Shapire Poplar 1c 593
Shapiro Barnett - Bernstein Poplar 1c 593

How certain are you that he was born in 1904?

The reason I ask is because I have found this

Name: Barnett Shapiro
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Sam Shapiro
Mother's Name: Leons Shapiro
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/12
Registration district: Gorbals
Civil parish: Glasgow Gorbals
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 16 Main Street
ED: 52
Household schedule number: 106
Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1901_316
Household Members: Name Age
Sam Shapiro 33
Leons Shapiro 27
Soloman Shapiro 6
Nellie Shapiro 4
Barnett Shapiro 1
Mary Callaghan 24
Samuel Miller 25
Annie Miller 19

which may or may not be related to your family

Judith,

I did a search 1925/40 on rachel marrying a Barnett ?? below are the only two both in same area...........

Marriages Mar 1930 (>99%)
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Cohen Rachel Abrahams Stepney 1c 448

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Marriages Mar 1935 (>99%)
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Cohen Rachel Pike Stepney 1c 452