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Hi everyone,
Just an update here - I was at a large family party at the weekend and managed to speak to a lot of elderly relatives, some of whom even remembered the elusive Barnett.
They basically told me "you'll never find him" - Barnett (or Barney) used at least 3 surnames - he probably did not marry under the name Shapiro. He apparently used to set up gambling dens for the East London underworld in the 40's and 50's. I asked if I should actually be searching proson records and was told if he went to prison it was probably under another 'name'.
I am interested in the Abrahams marriage though - this could be one of his aliases.
Thanks to all of you for all your help
Judith

I just wanted to note that the given name Barnett and surname Shapiro were both very common in the Jewish community in England a century ago. So there will likely be numerous records for that name that are different people.

Is there any chance that Barnett Shapiro was the alias??
(edit - or that he married under an alias, as has been suggested; identification would not have had to be shown to register the children's births as Shapiro, either way)

I just found this marriage interesting, and you'll have to bear with me, it took a while to sort out, because clicking on "Find Spouse" for any of them doesn't find a spouse. ;)

Name: Rachel Cohen
Spouse Surname: Reisen Or Feltzar
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1928
Registration district: London City
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 64

Name: Morris Reisen
Spouse Surname: Cohan (spelled differently from her record)
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1928
Registration district: London City
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 64

Name: Morris Feltzer (spelled differently from her record)
Spouse Surname: Cohen
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1928
Registration district: London City
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 64


I don't see any births with any combo of any variants of those names, or a death for a Rachel or Morris with any variant of either of them.

Just a thought............have you tried searching the London Gazette with Barnetts name and appropriate dates.....you never know!

Annx

Haha, I promise to let you know if I manage to find anything and tulip and clogs, no problem. As I said before if anyone needs any dutch records searching/translating, I'd be happy to help
Judith

Not sure Judith, if you google National Archives (the site is a bit complex till you get used to it)

Click on RECORDS then click on SEARCHING PEOPLE the put Barnett Shapiro in the top right hand search box.........three items will pop up click on and it should tell you what it contains........the record MAY be downloadable as some are.

Annx

PS If we solve this one you can send us all some Tulips!!

That is amazing!!! I will try and jog my uncles memory with that and see if it means anything to him.
I will also call Rainham cemetery tomorrow to see if they can link a Barnett to a Rachel and failing everything, there is the London Beth Din I suppose although I'm not sure if they'll divulge any info!
Thank you all so much :-)

it might not be your man, but there is a notice of change of name for a Barnett Shapiro, a textiles buyer of Maida Vale London who changed his name to Bernard Spears in 1944

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36604/pages/3255/page.pdf

Austria???? Well it would certainly explain any abscence on the 1911! But the family are definitely from Russia/Poland - although - another long shot - most jews left the area in the early 1900's to escape the pogroms, mainly fleeing to the UK, the US and South Africa. Maybe mine went via Austria, sstayed a couple of years and then went on to London.... anything's possible!
If I asked for a copy of this document it would also tell me who he came with right?

Yes Judith if she was the informant.......then BINGO!

Annx

the only other item on a Barnett Shapiro in the Archives.......maybe a link to your Barnett..........worth keeping anyway.


Membership card for the Manchester Jewish Tailor's... 1985-674
Membership card for the Manche . 1985 674 Membership card for the Manchester Jewish Tailor's, Machinists and Pressers Trade Union for Barnett Shapiro. Barnett Shapiro emigrated to the UK from Russia in 1896. He was granted a peddler's certificate in 1897
Date: 1900

And I'm guessing the informant would most likely be the spouse....if it's a Rachel then that must be the right Barnett

Just found this........i wonder????



Nationality and Naturalisation: Shapiro, Barnett, from Austria. Resident in London. Certificate 22207 issued 22 July 1912.
Covering dates 1912
Held by The National Archives, Kew

Former reference (Department) 221816
Legal status Public Record(s)

Well the marriage cert would be ideal, as this would name their fathers and the addresses they were living at the time, ages etc, but at the moment you are unable to find the appropriate cert!

The deat cert should give time and place of death, the informants name and cause of death......not sure if their birth date was recorded in the 1950's.......someone else may be able to help on that one.

Annx

Oooh, the death registration - well it was absolutely definitely 1956 but the only death I found was for one in Greenwich - I hadn't noticed the Stepney one... It could really be either of these, my uncle did say he died in a hospital but I don't suppose that helps much either...

it might be worth a search on the sites below to see if he's buried at Rainham

http://www.eolfhs.org.uk/cemeteries/havering/havering.html

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?AcctView=Login&SrchView=Basic&DetsView=Content&ListSource=Contributors§ion=CONTRIBUTORS&context=SOUTHESSEX&lang=E&sessionid=12582908

Sorry I only just noticed the Barnott Shapiro - that is promising! Because of the Yiddish used at the time a lot of the 'e' sounds were pronounced as 'o'
Thank you for that!

I just wanted to say thanks to you all for helping, I am in Holland so have to look up everything online but if anyone ever needs anyonre to look into dutch records for anything I'd be happy to help out
Judith

looking for death there are a few possibles, are you sure it was registered in Greenwich?

Name: Barnett Shapiro
Death Registration Month/Year: 1956
Age at death (estimated): 53
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 814


Name: Barnett Shapiro
Death Registration Month/Year: 1956
Age at death (estimated): 52
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5c
Page: 465


Name: Barnett Shapiro
Death Registration Month/Year: 1966
Age at death (estimated): 56
Registration district: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5b
Page: 452


Name: Barnett Shapiro
Birth Date: 10 Sep 1909
Death Registration Month/Year: 1971
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 1379

Not that one, Rachel was definitely born as Cohen in 1908 - I have her on the 1911 census and am in contact with many of the grandchildren of her 9 sisters!

I've checked Rachel Cohen's, she's buried at Rainham cemetery, someone even went there and took a foto of the stone for me but Barnett is not there unfortunately....
There would definitely be a burial, we don't tend to cremate so there should be a plot and a stone - but where????

Just to throw another spanner in!!


Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
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SHAPIRO Barnott Bethnal G. 1c 160
SHAPIRO May Hackney 1b 513
SHAPIRO Rachel Mile End 1c 469

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