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1851 sorry wrong william townsend c1792 bampton oxfordshire
cant find any in 1861.
1871 1881 both right
1891 wrong 1895 emma and david die
1891 wrong 1901 wrong
alice was born 1882 as above
sams parents mark and hannah yes sam is a cycle finisher.born1870

Now this is interesting

I listed Charle's siblings earlier.
Thought I would check them out for clues.


1891 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, Thomas
Address: 8 Court 1 House, Inkerman Street, Aston, Aston Manor
TOWNSEND, Thomas Head Married M 33 1858 Brass Work Filer
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Sarah J Wife Married F 31 1860
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Thomas Son M 13 1878 Errand Lad
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Albert Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Violet Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Ellen Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar
Aston
Warwickshire VIEW
TOWNSEND, Elizabeth Daughter F 4 1887
Aston
Warwickshire

1901 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, Thos H
Address: 41, Webster Street, Aston Manor
TOWNSEND, Thos H Head Married M 44 1857 Cycle Run Maker
B'ham Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Sarah Wife Married F 43 1858 B'ham
Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Thos H Son Married M 23 1878 Cycle Run Maker B'ham Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Albert Son Single M 19 1882 Brass Polisher
B'ham Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Voilet Daughter Single F 17 1884 Musical Bronzing B'ham Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Nellie Daughter Single F 16 1885 Warehouse Girl Cycle
Aston Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Geo Son M 9 1892
Aston Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, William Son M 7 1894
Aston
Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Lizzie Daughter F 4 1897
Aston Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Lily Daughter F 2 1899
Aston Warwickshire

Samuel was in the cycle business.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, Thomas
Address: 41 Webster St Aston
TOWNSEND, Thomas Head Married M 53 1858 Brass Handler Bham England VIEW
TOWNSEND, William H Son Single M 17 1894 Toole Maker Aston England VIEW
TOWNSEND, Lily Daughter Single F 11 1900 School Aston England

1851 census - household transcription
Person: TOWNSEND, David
Address: Cote House, Hamlet Of Aston & Cote In The Parish Of Bampton
TOWNSEND, Robert Head Married M 48 1803 Ag Lab
Aston
Oxon
TOWNSEND, Elizabeth Wife Married F 44 1807 Ag Lab Wife
Aston
Oxon
TOWNSEND, John Son Unmarried M 21 1830 Ag Lab Son
Aston
Oxon
TOWNSEND, David Son Unmarried M 17 1834 Ag Lab Son
Aston
Oxon
TOWNSEND, Harriett Daughter F 12 1839 Scholar
Cote
Oxon
TOWNSEND, Thomas Grand Son M 2 1849 At Home
Cote
Oxon


1871 England Census
about Charles Vine Townsend
Name: Charles Vine Townsend
[Charles Viner Townsend]
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Household schedule number: 161
Household Members: Name Age
David Townsend 47
Emma Townsend 42
William Townsend 18
Charles Vine Townsend 14
Thomas Townsend 13
Sarah Ann Townsend 11
Emma Townsend


Name: Charles Viner Townsend
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 19 Oct 1856
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 02 Aug 1856
Father's Name: David Townsend
Mother's Name: Emma

Reference Number:
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Siblings
1. SARAH ANN TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 23 OCT 1859 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

2. JOSEPH TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 JAN 1863 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

3. EMMA TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 JUL 1861 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

4. HARRIETT TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 21 JAN 1866 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

5. GEORGE TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 18 FEB 1855 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

6. HENRY TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 05 JUN 1864 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

7. THOMAS TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 DEC 1857 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England

8. CHARLES VINER TOWNSEND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 OCT 1856 Saint Thomas, Birmingham, Warwick, England


1881 census -
Address: 14, Court 20 House, Broad St, Birmingham
TOWNSEND, David Head Married M 55 1826 Warehouse Man
Bampton
Oxfordshire
TOWNSEND, Emma Wife Married F 55 1826
Backimton
Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Charles Son Single M 24 1857 Carpenter
Bham
Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Sarah Daughter Single F 21 1860 India Rubber Worker
Bham
Warwickshire
TOWNSEND, Emma Daughter Single F 19 1862 Tailoress
Bham
Warwickshire

No marriage found for Alice and Samuel

1901 census
Address: 27, Rodway Street, Birmingham
SMITH, James Head Married M 71 1830 Glass Blower
Birmingham
SMITH, Jane Wife Married F 59 1842
Birmingham
Warwickshire
SMITH, Samuel Son Single M 21 1880 Cycle Worker
Birmingham
Warwickshire
SMITH, David Son Single M 19 1882 Cycle Worker
Birmingham
Warwickshire


1911 census
Address: 93 Sherlock Street Birmingham County: Warwickshire
SMITH, Samuel Head Married
9 years M 32 1879 Finisher Warwickshire Aston
SMITH, Alice May Wife Married
9 years F 28 1883 Warwickshire B Ham

Samuel is a finisher employed in the cycle trade.
Alice May is either 28 but 29 superimposed or vice versa.

ninth feb 1905 back 87 george street west ruth father samuel smith mother alice may smith formally townsend.
birmingham ladywood county of warwick

sorry i was so tied i couldnt see the screen i have birth marriage and death certificates for ruth born 2/9/1905 she marrided william lewis27/7 1927 as ruth mary theresa and died 25,4/1969 as ruth lewis. birth 1882 marriaged1902 to sam smith and death 1962 for alice may. birth1856 marriagedemily hodson1881 and death1937 for charles viner townsend and i think i found him going to australia on ship records
. sorry i have tried to give full info didnt mean to keep any back

How do you know the 1911 address is right? There are several Ruths but all with parents, So perhaps Samuel and Alice May are wrong. Or do you have definite records. I have just spent hours looking and not finding anything.

"probably but i got my copy from my dad so i didnt order it. ruth is my nan"

Yes, but what does the copy of the birth certificate *say*? Is she Ruth, Ruth Rebecca or something else? (For clarity, "09/02/1095 is 9 February and not September 2, right?) And what are the full names of the parents?

Can you tell us whom she married, please?

Do you have Alice May's marriage certificate stating a father and/or birth certificate stating parents?

She's this one

Births Sep 1880
TOWNSEND Alice May Aston 6d 252

and the other one

Births Jun 1882
Townsend Alice May Birmingham 6d 47

is the false trail I was on in 1901, I presume?

Or were Charles and Emily not married? I don't see a marriage. In which case was Alice May not registered as Townsend? Can you show us where she is in a census before marriage? - 'cause I can't find her.


For that matter, where is the marriage of Samuel Smith and Alice? You said 1902; is that just taken from the 1911 census and you don't actually have the marriage record?

What does it say?

Another tree has her as Ruth M T Smith.

I am just finding a lack of records to back things up.

death certificate that alice handed down to us and a chance hot match with his new family in australia

I have found youtree on Ancestry Zena and you have Alice's father as

charles viner townsend
birth
1856
in Birmingham, West Midlands, England, United Kingdom Death

1937
in five dock N S W


Spouse & Children emily hodson (1860-) alice may townsend (1882-1962)


Age: 5 Residence
Birmingham, Warwickshire, England 1 source citation Hide source citations 1861 England Census 1871

Age: 15 Residence
Birmingham, Warwickshire, England 1 source citation Hide source citations 1871 England Census 1881

Age: 25 Residence
Birmingham, Warwickshire, England 1 source citation Hide source citations 1881 England Census 1930

Age: 74 Residence
Five Dock, Martin, New South Wales, Australia 1 source citation Hide source citations Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954 1933

Age: 77 Residence
Drummoyne, Martin, New South Wales, Australia 1 source citation Hide source citations Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954 1936

Age: 80 Residence
Five Dock, Martin, New South Wales, Australia 1 source citation Hide source citations Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954 1937

Age: 81 Death
five dock N S W
1937

Age: 81 Residence
Five Dock, Martin, New South Wales, Australia


Can you tell us how you got there because I cannot find things tying up.

sorry yes your right emily was born 1860ish. But thats not her. Alice may's father was charles he left them so didnt appear on any census with emily or alice. you'll find him in australia

Just to note, the Emily Townsend in that thread was born 1881 and the Emily Townsend who was Alice May's mother would have been a generation older.

That Emily's father was Arthur.

Name: Arthur Townsend
Age: 54 in 1901
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Spouse's name: Almo S
Where born: Allesley, Warwickshire, England

(Actually, see later in that thread, if Arthur was Emily's father, he wasn't married to Alma; Emily was registered as Scott.)


Actually, your Emily was a Townsend by marriage only. But your Alice May and her father were Townsend.

1901 in Birmingham:

Henry Lownsend 56 - it says Townsend, of course
Emily Lownsend 61
Alice M Lownsend 19
Charles Lownsend 17

If you subscribe to Ancestry you should correct that mistake to Townsend -- on the left side of any of their records, there is a link that says "Add Alternate Information". People could then contact you through that site. If you don't, one of us could correct it for you.

Edit - I'll correct it; as per below, that is a coincidental Alice M Townsend with mother Emily and not the one for this thread. Have deleted irrelevant info about Henry.

im also watching the emily townsend thread as thats alice mays mothers name

probably but i got my copy from my dad so i didnt order it. ruth is my nan

so one of these?

Births Mar 1905 (>99%)
Smith Ruth Birmingham 6d 201
Smith Ruth Rebecca Birmingham 6d 60

the only one i could find was at 24 court house bissell st birmingham but it says she is the daughter of ruth and thomas attwood what do you think?????

Sorry, Zena. Can't find Ruth at all, very strange. As for the child that died, as you say there are hundreds. Sorry to be no help at all.

yes thats them