Find Ancestors

FBG -- why didn't you just say this in the thread, you?! I'll copy your email here:


"I had a look at the Welsh thingy and they will not be in the library. I do think she will have to buy them from GRO £9.25P or from Register office for £9 and enclose a S.A.E..
The reg offices seem to hold them all.
Some reg offices in Wales charge a search fee which can be up to £25 and can take weeks sometimes.
Much quicker to order from GRO if you have refs.
I have not yet been able to view any BMDs in Wales and had to buy them all."


So Heather, it looks like you're probably stuck shelling out for certificates.

FBG went on to say:


"You have an added problem that the Record offices dont hold many Chapel marriages,only Church ones. (Pre 1837 of course, but most Chapel records are either still in the chapels or in the Library of Wales in Aberystwyth Cardiganshire (Ceredigion)
So you also need to know the denomination of your people to be able to search for marriages."


I think that relates only to the early 1800s records, and it seems Lesley has all of that info that you need, on the Nicholls side. ;)

Any 1911 stuff you want can be looked up if you still want it.
Make a list please Janey.

Going to bed now.

Edits..You have gmail.

So I've finished the job on the children of the siblings of Tom 1901. Unfortunately, it's mainly disappointing.

(Thomas) Hartley 1896 had one child, Derek, who is deceased, and as far as can be determined had no chidren.

John William 1898 had five children; three died in early childhood, one married but had no children and is deceased; and one I can't find a marriage or death for.

Annie Maud probably had five children, but because their surname is Williams ... even identifying them, let alone tracing them, is difficult guesswork. Assuming I got her children right, the one grandchild I was fairly confident of was a girl, a Williams born in Cardiff ... so identifying her marriage ... well, you see the problem.

So my best recommendation to Heather was to take all the names I gave her and search trees!

(I've updated the list of the vital events for the children of Tom, on page 2, to include their spouses' deaths where identified.)

I'm not your best advisor on where to find original records, but I think birth and other certs have to be got from registry offices rather than libraries. Are you in Cardiff at the moment then? Lemme go find a Welsh expert to advise you!

All I can say is OMG!!
Thanks Janey, just been given a curry..will have to come back to this!
Will go to the Library and see if I can view those birth certs!
Thanks

Oh -- Heather, your mum's "Uncle Hartley" -- that will be Thomas Hartley Nicholls 1896, father of Derek, son of Thomas Henry 1870.

He was apparently called "Hartley", so his parents went ahead and had another "Tom". ;)

You slipped in there, Heather!

Does my account make sense there now? Two Thomas Henrys, grandfather and grandson. Confused me at first too; I was doing some editing there as I figured it out. ;)

I know the feeling, Lesley. ;)


Thomas Henry 1870 was the son of Hartley and Jane, brother of Gwyn (Erith Gwyn) the footballer, etc.

Thomas Henry 1870 had a son Thomas Hartley Nicholls 1896. (Derek Nicholls was his son.)

Thomas Henry 1870 also had a son Tom Nicholls 1901 -- Heather's grandfather.

Odd to give two children essentially the same name -- good idea to get the 1896 and 1901 birth certs to check the parents, if one is going to be a proper genealogist. ;) But when I search the 1911 census for his name as "son", he does answer to that.


Thomas Henry 1870 is Heather's *mum's* grandfather. ;) Heather is a whole generation younger than you -- you must have long generations in your family! (I have a gr-grfather born 101 years before me; he was 50 when my grandparent was born. I've found a descendant of that ggf's older sister -- the descendant is 65, and is the same generation as my 12-year old niece.)



"Thomas Henry 1816-1859 married twice first wife Eleanor Curnock died in childbirth (Edwin 1847) and he later married Jane who was the servant girl. We think that Jane was the mother of 2 of the children that were born before Eleanors death."

So Thomas Henry Nicholls 1816-1859 was the father of Hartley Nicholls 1838-1924.

1881 census:

Hartley Nicholls 43
- Inspector Of Cattle & Slaughter House, born Stonebridge, Gloucestershire
Jane E. Nicholls 31
- born Hartpury, Gloucestershire
Clara Nicholls 14
Sydney H. Nicholls 12
Thomas H. Nicholls 11
Douglas H. Nicholls 9
Erith G. Nicholls 6
Ivor J. Nicholls 3
(Garnet came later)



Births Mar 1838
NICHOLLS Hartley Dursley 11 272

Deaths Mar 1924
Nicholls Hartley 86 Cardiff 11a 419


Hartley Nicholls 1838 is the nearest common Nicholls ancestor of Lesley and Heather. He is:

- Lesley's great-grandfather (Lesley's grandfather is Douglas Hartley)

- Heather's great-great-grandfather (Heather's great-grandfather is Thomas Henry 1870, and her grandfather is his son Tom 1901)


I did something like this once before in my career as an amateur genealogist. ;) Do a bit of groundwork, and then find that the rest has already been done! A young friend of mine in North Carolina had a story about her great-grandfather stowing away on a boat from England to the US in the late 1800s. I played with that a while, but it didn't make sense. What I did find was who her great-grandfather really was -- which was the descendant of a drummer boy in the Revolutionary War, who was descended from one of the very earliest settlers of the US colonies! -- I think that was my friends grx8 grandfather. And farther back, there's a Sheriff of Nottingham. ;) Once I figured out who the great-grandfather really was and who his father was, all the rest had already been done by many genealogists in the US.

Just like here -- get Heather connected up with the Hartley Nicholls 1838 family, and Lesley has all the rest. ;)


So Heather, how's your mum today? ;)

I will get back to redoing the family of Tom's brother John. I've been sidetracked for the last couple of days by discovering who one of my grx3 grandmothers was, and finding that she probably spent several decades in a lunatic asylum before dying in 1875 at age 80 ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1143274

for anyone who's particularly bored to have a read. ;)

Hi Lesley, my mother says her Grandfather was Thomas Henry, surely the Thomas Henry you speak of born in 1816 has to be his Grandfather? Im confused here : )

She also has always talked of her uncle Hartley, is that your grandfather do you think?

My head is now swimming with Nicholl's.
Thomas Henry 1816-1859 married twice first wife Eleanor Curnock died in childbirth (Edwin 1847) and he later married Jane who was the servant girl. We think that Jane was the mother of 2 of the children that were born before Eleanors death.
We have Heathers grandfather as Thomas Henry not Thomas Hartley. My grandfather was Douglas Hartley (would you give 2 of your children the same name ?)
possibly. I havnt seen the birth register for him so this may be the case.
Clara
Sydney Herbert
Thomas Henry
Douglas Hartley
Erith Gwyn
Ivor
Garnet
We still have Hartleys in the family today. Janey I think
your amazing

Im so excited that I might get somewhere with this, its something I have wanted to do for years, seeing my mother cry breaks my heart!
Thanks Janey and thanks to everyone else who has helped : )

Heather

Crrrrrrrrrrap. I sent all the info I could find about Annie Maud L Nicholls and said to hurry over and read Lesley's post here (Heather hasn't opened it yet). I had just about finished up on the John William Nicholls end ... when my Firefox crashed. And it restored itself to some point about a week ago instead of giving me back what I actually had open. So I'm going to have to do it over again ... a little later ...

Why thankee Karen! I do hate to be a wet blanket, but the danged thing is, it's photos of Heather's mum's father Tom (Thomas Henry is Heather's mum's grandfather) that her mum would really like. I'm working on finding first cousins of Heather's mum (children of Tom's siblings), and their children. Even if nobody had photos, they'd be found family.

Everything that Lesley is offering sure wouldn't be a bad consolation prize though, would it? ;)

So to summarize -- children of Thomas Henry Nicholls and Elizabeth Richards -- siblings of your mum's father Tom:



Births Mar 1901
Nicholls Tom Cardiff 11a 367

- info known re marriage and children etc.



Births Jun 1896
Nicholls Thomas Hartley Cardiff 11a 308

Marriages Jun 1918
Nicholls Thomas H Wallis Cardiff 11a 595
Wallis Edith A Nicholls Cardiff 11a 595

Name: Thomas Hartley Nicholls
Birth Date: 15 Mar 1896
Death Registration Month/Year: 1983
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Avon
Volume: 22
Page: 0127

edit to add for completeness, probable wife's death:

Name: Edith Ada Nicholls
Birth Date: 8 Oct 1896
Death Registration Month/Year: 1982
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Avon
Volume: 22
Page: 0096



Births Jun 1898
NICHOLLS John William Cardiff 11a 343

Marriages Jun 1921
Evans Florence E Nicholls Cardiff 11a 639
Nicholls John W Evans Cardiff 11a 639

Name: John William Nicholls - probably
Birth Date: 5 Mar 1898
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: South Glamorgan
Inferred County: South Glamorgan
Volume: 28
Page: 1489

edit to add for completeness, probable wife's death:

Name: Florence Elizabeth Nicholls
Birth Date: 1 Aug 1897
Death Registration Month/Year: 1979
Registration district: South Glamorgan
Inferred County: South Glamorgan
Volume: 28
Page: 1478



Births Sep 1906
Nicholls Annie Maud L Cardiff 11a 382

Marriages Jun 1930
Nicholls Annie M L Williams Cardiff 11a 710
Williams Edward J S Nicholls Cardiff 11a 710

Name: Annie Maud Williams - possibly
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1906
Death Registration Month/Year: Apr 2001
Age at death (estimated): 94
Registration district: Carmarthen
Inferred County: Carmarthenshire
Register number: 2/18D
District and Subdistrict: 8182
Entry number: 23

deleting possibility of remarriage because this is her husband's death:

Name: Edward J S Williams
Death Registration Month/Year: 1946
Age at death (estimated): 43
Registration district: Cardiff
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 274



I'm checking for children of the various marriages and sending them now.

Hi Janey

You've done an amazing job for Heather! I was going to offer to look up what ever you need on 1911 census but that is perhaps not necessary now but if it is I can do it.

Just had to post - its so great to see not only how much you were able to do but also to get to the end and read that the read has resulted in someone coming up with the photos :)

Karen

Oh Lesley, that's wonderful. How did you run across this thread?? The surname board?

I think Thomas Henry is Heather's great-grandfather, if I've got it straight. Hartley and Jane are Heather's great-great-grandparents. Thomas Henry's son Tom is Heather's grandfather, her mother's father.

So whew, at least I'm off the hook for finding any more ancestors for Heather! ;)

If you click on Heather's name in this thread you might reach her more quickly, since she'll get an email notification of that message immediately (but not of posts here on the board).

Good luck and best wishes to you both!

Now I have to get back to trying to find other descendants of Tom himself ...

Hi Heather
My name is lesley Harding maiden name Nicholls.
I am the grandaughter of Douglas Hartley Nicholls one of the brothers to your grandfather Thomas Henry.
I have not much information about him but I do have photographs of his parents (your great grandparents) Hartley and Jane Eliza Nicholls. Maybe your mum would like to have these?
We also have a family tree on geni.com where you will be able to see your ancestors dating back to the 16th century.
There is so much information there about the family and its history.
If you contact me with your email address i can send you and invite to Geni so that you can look at the tree. I will also forward you as many of the old family photos that I have.
Regards lesley

Thats interesting, I knew that there was a strong connection with Haverfordwest, I still have several cousins living there but have lost contact with them...my uncle Tom died a few years ago (as you already found out!)
None of that side of the family would have any photos sadly as of course my Uncle was younger than my mother.

I have a confession to make, I think Im addicted to this now! I wish I knew what I was doing....

Oh, I think I'm good. Could this be them?

Name: Janet L Thomas
Spouse: Frederick J S Berry
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1099


Janet Louisa Thomas, as hypothesized earlier re the 1911 census? There's only one other Frederick Berry marriage to a Thomas, and she isn't Louisa (and was previously married).

The 1911 census:

THOMAS ANNIE VICTORIA 1898 13 Cardiff Glamorganshire
THOMAS JANET LOUISA 1896 15
THOMAS MR JOHN HENRY 1873 38
THOMAS MRS LIZZIE ANN 1875 36 (née Moss)

Fredda G Berry was born in Cardiff 1922 and died in Cardiff 1935. (Whole swaths of my Cornwall/Devon ancestors were taken out by TB in the late 1900s. My grandmother's first child died not much later than 1922 in Canada of strep throat ...)

Name: Janet Louisa Berry
Birth Date: 8 Nov 1895
Death Registration Month/Year: 1978
Registration district: Sedgemoor
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 23
Page: 1470

So yup, that 1911 household is pretty surely them. And in the 1901:

John Thomas 29
Lizzie Thomas 30
Jane Thomas 5
Annie Thomas 4
Charles Thomas 2 (must have died in childhood; the 1911 details would say)

Both girls shown as born in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire.


The closest I can come for a birth is

Births Dec 1895
Thomas Janet J Haverfordwest 11a 1122a

Hi Janey,
My Great Aunt Louisa was married to a Frederick Berry, they lived in Somerset I think, maybe Taunton. She had one child Georgina, who died of TB at about 12 ..if my memory serves me rightly.
The two girls were born in Cardiff and Annie lived there most of her life but died in Cheltenham hospital.
I would love to be able to present a tree of some sort to my mother on 11th of Sept, youre right I think she would love this.
Thanks : )