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Just a quick note on Evan/John (again!)

I've been in contact with a fellow GR member whose husband is descended from one of his sisters, and her notes state that Evan Snr's parents were John and Sarah Harries.

So, it appears from this evidence that Evan/John may have been listed twice on the 1841 census - once at his grandparents' residence (as Evan) and again at his parents' (as John) So, the one we found on the 1851 census could be the same guy after all.

I have checked for the missing 1861 of Cards and guess what?

Yep,Part of Dihewyd is missing.

Missing pieces of the 1861 census

There are a number of enumeration books missing, or parts of enumeration books (usually missing start or finish), from the 1861 census. Below is a list of the books affected that we know of, both those missing in their entirety (M) and those which are incomplete (I) in the National Archives.

4190 Cardiganshire Aberayron Llandisilio (1) Dihewid

I have to feed all at the ranch.
Back a bit later and will search again for both familys on 1861.

BUT.
I have found that a fair bit of 1861 census are missing for Cards in my own search for Sons ancestors,and Best mates family.

Anyway.

Back about 6pm.

And Grace is here.

HARRIES, Grace Servant F 13 1848 Waiter
Cardigan Llanarth
Address:
Fronwn Uchef, Llanarth

I posted her earlier,maybe you missed it.

Think this may be Sarah.

Name: Sarah Williams
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Dihewyd, Cardiganshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Bettws Bledrws
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales

Samuel Davies 53
Elizabeth Davies 45
John Davies 14
Samuel Davies 6
William Evans 24
John Jenkins 18
Daniel Price 17
Sarah Williams 26
Sarah Davies 22
John Morgans 13

A couple of thoughts here.

One - just to clarify, you're sure you couldn't find any of Evan's other family members, including his parents, in 1861? It would appear strange of they all disappear from the census, yet his Dad was present at the wedding in 1864.

Secondly, do we have any idea where Sarah Williams or her family were in 1861?

Its been a pleasure working in my stomping ground for a change...

Set me thinking and looking up all sorts of places round there that I know well.

Even found the place I owned for a short while on the 1911 with the people in it that let it go to ruin in 1934 when they took the roof off so they didnt have to pay rates and went to live in LLanarth...
And the farm next door still has the same surname of family that were there in 1911.
Must ask if they are the same family next time I see them.

Alrighty, then. Thanks for that. Information overload, here I come!!!

There is this one in 1851.
But not in Henfynwy and says born Dihewid,so right birth area..

WILLIAMS, Thomas Head Married M 24 1827 Shoemaker Employing One Man
Caron
Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Charlotte Wife Married F 25 1826
Lledrod
Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Thomas Son M 0 (10 MOS) 1851
Lledrod
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Evan Servant Unmarried M 18 1833 Shoemaker's Servant
Dyhewid
Cardiganshire

Registration District:
Tregaron
Address:
Ty R Crydd County:
Cardiganshire

I think he is this one on 1841,so a different man.

HARRIES, John M 55 1786 Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Sarah F 56 1785 Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Evan M 7 1834 Cardiganshire


Registration District:
Aberayron

Civil Parish:
Dihewid Municipal Borough:
Address:
Penfoel, Dihewid County:
Cardiganshire

Thanks for all the census info.

Henfynwy, eh? That kind of rings a bell - I think that's where I found that possible Evan living on the 1851 census. Could you check? I can't lay my hands on the notes.

1851 For the Williams at MaesGwyn Dihewid.

WILLIAMS, Moses Head Married M 52 1799 Agricultural Labourer
Ystrad
Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Margaret Wife Married F 52 1799
Dihewid
Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Ann Daughter F 13 1838 Farm Servant
Dihewid
Cardiganshire


Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
Llandisilio Enumeration District:

Civil Parish:
Dihewid
Address:
Maesgwin Troedyraur Hundred, Dihewid County:
Cardiganshire

1841

WILLIAMS, Moses M 37 1804 Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Margaret F 35 1806 Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, John M 10 1831 Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Sarah F 7 1834 Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Ann F 4 1837 Cardiganshire
WILLIAMS, Justiana F 15 1826 Cardiganshire

Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
Llandisiliogogo Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Dihewid Municipal Borough:
Address:
Blaen Cillwch, Dihewid County:
Cardiganshire

This 1861 census?I had noted that one before and if he was a Carter he could become a carrier very easily.

EVANS, Jemima Head Widow F 78 1783 Farmer Of 88 Acres
Cayo...
Carmarthenshire
EVANS, Anne Daughter Unmarried F 34 1827 Farmers Daughter
Silian
Cardiganshire
DAVIES, Jane Granddaughter Unmarried F 18 1843
Silian
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Evan Servant Unmarried M 23 1838 Carter
...(Born Henfynwy)Just up the road from LLanarth by about 5 miles.
Cardiganshire
THOMAS, Daniel Servant Unmarried M 13 1848 Plough Man
Ystrad
Cardiganshire
HUGHES, Daniel Servant M 10 1851 Shepherd
Ystrad
Cardiganshire
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
4193 Folio:
44 Page:
9

Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
2 Llansaintffraid Enumeration District:
11 C Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Llanfihangel Ystrad Municipal Borough:
Address:
Falyndre Issa, Llanfihangel Ystrad County:
Cardiganshire

And Grace is here.

HARRIES, Grace Servant F 13 1848 Waiter
Cardigan Llanarth
Address:
Fronwn Uchef, Llanarth

But I cant find any of the others in 1861.

Back for a while.

Yes I do.

I remember now that Dihewyd and Mydroilyn come under the parish of LLanarth from when I looked up things on a deserted smallholding that I bought between the 2 back in 1999.
Never did win the planning to rebuild the ruin,so I sold it again.

I think this is your family,do you.?
With Martha Harries being at MaesGwyn in 1861 it looks most likely.


Do you Have Sarah Williams fathers name and occupation?

Thanks for the census info. I have a vague memory of possibly stumbling across Evan Jnr. on the 1851 census a couple of weeks ago, working as a servant in a nearby village. Worth double-checking that one, do you think?

Back later to try and follow them through,I am running late now !

The Lampeter/Cardigan Registrar is setting up a website for all the BMDs that she holds.

Things may get easier in those districts to find then.

But she is always so busy that Evan knows when she will get it up and running..

Interesting idea about the 1861 records. Definitely worth following up, I think.

I'll run a quick BMD check for John under the Williams name, although I've already found a couple of possibles under the Harries name. I'm still waiting for theArchives in Aberystwyth to check the marriage again and let me know whether the bride and/or groom had been previously married.

I GOT HIM..I would think anyway as how many more Evan Harries Relieving Officers in the LLANARTH / Dihewyd area would there be?

It was ,and is far too small an area to require many R.Os..

1851

HARRIES, Evan Head Married M 39 1812 Relieving Officer
Dihewid
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Mary Wife Married F 42 1809
Llanllwin
Carmarthenshire
HARRIES, Martha Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Sholar
Cellan
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Sally Daughter F 10 1841 Sholar
Llanarth
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Henry Son M 7 1844 Sholar
Llanarth
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Mary Anne Daughter F 5 1846
Llanarth
Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Grace Daughter F 3 1848
Llanarth
Cardiganshire
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
2484 Folio:
282 Page:
8

Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
Llandisilio Enumeration District:
2B Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Llanarth Municipal Borough:
Address:
Penybont Gwith, Llanarth County:
Cardiganshire

1841

HARRIES, Evan M 29 1812 (R.O) Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Mary F 30 1811
>>>>HARRIES, John M 7 1834 Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Martha F 5 1836 Cardiganshire
HARRIES, Jane F 3 1838 Cardiganshire
-, - F 0 (5 weeks) 1841 Cardiganshire
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1375 Book/Folio:
6/6 Page:
5

Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
Llandisiliogogo Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Llanarth Municipal Borough:
Address:
Penbontchwith, Llanarth County:
Cardiganshire

It could be either,they are different on each census,but neither are that close to Dihewyd.

At least we have the LLAN being consistent,as though that helps Ha Ha..:)

I will keep on with this but have to go out for a couple of hours.

A look up of the local workhouses for its relieving officers in 1861 may be an idea.

Will think on things while I am gone.

Oh.
And John Harris born 1857 may have been born to Sarah before marriage so would be a Williams on 1861 maybe?

I can see the possibility of Evan's borthplace being Llancwnlle. I had previously thought that it might be Llangynllo, near Newcastle Emlyn. What do you think?

1871

HARRIES, Martha Head F 29 1842 Cardiganshire (Dihewyd)
LEWIS, Sarah Daughter F 6 1865 Cardiganshire
LEWIS, John Son M 1 1870 Cardiganshire
RG number:
RG10 Piece:
5553 Folio:
4 Page:
2

Registration District:
Aberayron Sub District:
Llandisilio Enumeration District:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Dihewyd Municipal Borough:
Address:
Maesgwyn, Dihewyd County:
Cardiganshire

Martha is unmarried so maybe the children have been taken in by her.

There are no place names like Llangunlla/o near Dihewyd,in fact that is near Knighton in Powys.

Llangwlle is a mistranscription I would say and I amstill trying to work out what it may be.
Maybe
LLancwnlle?Which is Tregaron way.

His place of birth will help to try and locate him on earlier census.

Evan is Welsh for John and in those days when the English liked everything Anglecised he may have been down as John and not Evan.

There is this man who is a relieving officer ,but in Worcester,so I dont think it is Evan Senior,but putting it here for thought.


HARRIS, John Head Widower M 73 1788 Reliving Officer Rigistrar Of Births And Deaths
Eckington
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Myra A Daughter Unmarried F 29 1832 Schoolmistress Of Day School
Eckington
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Elizabeth H Daughter Unmarried F 25 1836 Dressmaker
Eckington
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Catherine M Daughter Unmarried F 23 1838
Eckington
Worcestershire
RG number:
RG09 Piece:
2104 Folio:
50 Page:
24

Registration District:
Pershore Sub District:
1 Eckington Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Eckington Municipal Borough:
Address:
Bunn Street, Eckington County:
Worcestershire


Relieving officers were employed to receive applications for relief, and make payments when these had been approved by the Board. They also issued orders to admit people to workhouses.

Yes, theese are the right census records. It's trying to find him prior to the marriage to Sarah that's been the problem thus far. If it helps, his occupation on the marriage is noted as 'carrier'.