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Calling all mystery solvers !! Need help in finding my grandmother's missing sister.

In 1911 my grandmother Ellen O'Neill b1902 was living at 16 Molyneux St, Bootle with her parents John and Mary Ann (née Mort) and younger sisters Kate 1908 and Alice 1910. According to the image there were actually 4 children alive, which was real news to my mother as she thought she only had 2 aunts.

Recently I have found my mother’s long lost cousin, daughter of Alice who has been able to provide another piece of the jigsaw. Apparently the “missing” child was a girl who married a Mr Thompson and had 5 children with him: Ted (short for Edward?), Alice, Ada, Rose and Mary. My mum remembers her cousins Ted & Alice but could never work out how they were related, which is not a surprise now we know there was another sister.

We’d really like to find out the name of the missing sister and where she was in 1911, so any help would be very much appreciated. John and Mary Ann married in 1895 and had daughters Harriet 1897-98 and Annie 1900-01; given the ages of the others I assume the “missing” girl must have been born between 1902 and 1908. That she married this Thompson chap is only hearsay, and there is supposed to be some sort of scandal attached to her.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give.

And would all this take place in Lancashire?

I mean the alleged marriage to Mr Thompson and the birth of their children

Edits..
And any idea of Ted and Alice birth year if mum remembers them?

Hey Cagsie, long time no see!

As the parents were married 15 years is it possible this girl was born very soon after marriage as is now a servant somewhere?


Tracey x

For Info...

1911 RG14PN22418 RG78PN1322 RD455 SD5 ED12 SN233
Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Bootle
Address: 16 Molyneux St Bootle County: Lancashire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
O NEILL, John Head Married M 34 1877 Marine Fireman Steam Ship Lancs Bootle
O NEILL, Mary Wife Married F 33 1878 House Wife Lancs Kirkdale
O NEILL, Ellen Daughter No F 8 1903 None Lancs Bootle
O NEILL, Katie Daughter No F 3 1908 Lancs Bootle
O NEILL, Alice Daughter No F 0 (6 MONTHS) 1911 Lancs Bootle



Tracey x

There is this marriage set.

Marriages Mar 1917
O'Neill Mary E Thompson W.Derby 8b 666
Thompson Walter E O'Neill W.Derby 8b 666

Could the child have taken Mary's name?


Tracey x

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1895

Horan Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 73
*****************Mort Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 73
*****************O'Neill John Liverpool 8b 73
Powell John Liverpool 8b 73

1901


John Oneill
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Bootle, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Bootle Cum Linacre
Ecclesiastical parish: Walton on the Hill St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Dumbell 42
Ann Dumbell 16
Alice Dumbell 12
Annie Dumbell 5
John Oneill 23>>>>Stoker on steam ship
Mary Oneill 22

Fanny - yes, sorry should've said, assume all in Liverpool area

WayneTracey - yeah, work's been manic !! yes I suppose she could be, but in 1901 there are no children listed, guess I just like that 6 year gap between Ellen and Kate. But why would she be elsewhere at that age? She's not with another relative either.

Thats the marriage I had just hit on Tracey,with it being a Mary and all and mother being Mary...

Edits..
And any idea of Ted and Alice birth year if mum remembers them Cagsie?

thanks for the interest guys - census entries are correct ones, as is the o'neill/mort marriage

sorry no idea as to age of Ted and Alice, mum's 82 now and not at all reliable on her memories

Hmmm,

Sticky one, the earlier children are not 1 of twins are they? 1 twin given to another family member to care for?

If Harriet was born 1897, there is most def room for another child previous to that!



T x

Don't have a sub for 1911 census.....there were 4 children living could someone tell me how many children were actually born to the marriage?

This looks like your couple in 1901....

1901 RG number: RG13 Piece: 3460 Folio: 54 Page: 30
Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Bootle
Address: 32, Molyneux Street, Bootle Cum Linacre County: Lancashire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUMBELL, Ann Head Widow F 42 1859 Newcastle on Tyne Northamptonshire
DUMBELL, Ann Daughter F 16 1885 Laundress Smoother Liverpool Lancashire
DUMBELL, Alice Daughter F 12 1889 Liverpool Lancashire
DUMBELL, Annie Daughter F 5 1896 Liverpool Lancashire
O NEILL, John Boarder Married M 23 1878 Stoker On Steamship Bootle Lancashire
O NEILL, Mary Boarder Married F 22 1879 Bootle Lancashire

Where are the children Cagsie? I assume the earlier 2 were placed somewhere....? So it's possible the missing one was also?


Tracey x

1911 says 6 born, 4 alive
got info re Harriet and Annie by chance when a friend of a colleague who was also looking for o'neills visited the reg office

LB

6 were born to the marriage, 4 living, 2 dead...and only 3 named on the paperwork.


T x

WayneTracey - the 2 youngest had both died by 1901, I have copies from the reg office via colleague's friend proving this

Do you have John & Mary's marriage cert?

Could either one have been married before?


T x

Have you checked to see whether any children are with grandparents in 1911 census?

yes have marriage cert, bachelor and spinster !!!