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Lorraine: as you dig deeper into the WARBURTON name, please note that my wife has in her tree a John William WARBURTON, born Radcliffe in 1887. died 1935. He was one 6 children of Joseph WARBURTON and Emma HAMNET. He had 6 children with Sarah Ann MARSH and many of them emigrated to Canada

I don't think WARBURTON is a very common name(?) . If any connections please let me know.

Jeff Burton
Vancouver, BC

Hi
The registrar has just phoned and John WIlliam Smith is not from Mother Harriet : ( She also kindly checked 1 more name from 1894 and this wasn't right either. She asked me to find out for sure if he was born in Warrington.
The census in 1907 says born Warrington but 1911 when he lived in leigh says "born Leigh". But I would think Warrington is correct because Harriet was born there and lived there , even getting married there.
One thing though if you wouldn't mind helping if you can? I received a birth cert Firday that I thought Was John William Warburton but concluded was wrong...He born 27th May 1892 to Father John Henry Warburton and Elizabeth Ann Warburton (Formerly Proffitt). I have found these getting married in 1881 in Halton, Cheshire. (If I have done this correct). Do you know how to search children born to these names? I just wonder could Harriet not have been his real Mum? Did she take him from another family member? : )

Thankyou - I have emailed Warrington Registrar and will see if she replies - I have given her the info you found. Hopefully she will reply on Monday, wish me luck! thanks again

If you are applying in person at the counter they will probably give you one of their own forms to complete (the GRO numbers mean nothing to my local office, as they have their own ref nos.)
If applying by post to another region I usually just write a letter with the info on I have and enclose a cheque..
The GRO would need the official ref number and quarter

oh right will they do that? Coz I have a few like that where I only want it if it states a parents particular name...I will try that then and ask them to send me my cheque back if not...thanks...PS...When I entered John William Smith in Cheshire FREE BMD it came up just one in 1892...if I just give the the ref and page number you mention, can they find it from that or do they need a completed form?

thanks :)

I reckon you need to check the certificate.
If you stipulate that unless the mother is Harriett you don't want it... then you shouldn't be charged (unless it's through the General Reg Office who charge a fee for checking )

Hi
I just had a telephone call from Warrington Registrar as I emailed them to ask had the cert I received (a hand written copy of the original, not a photocopy), been mis read and should have been Gerrard. The lady said she has checked and got a colleague to check and it is without doubt maiden name GARRATT, where X marks the name of Mary....
Your search above though with the two relatives as Gerrard is looking good as doesn't the address say "Yard?" The wedding cert for Harriet Warburton & William SMith says Edlestone Yard I think as this is a photocopy of the original....Could the transcriber maybe have misheard Garratt for Gerrard?
I like your theory on John William Smith though, as the date is correct. John William was Warburton in 1901, the Smith in 1911, then Warburton again when he married in 1913. If his Mum Harriet married Jan 1894, maybe William Smith WAS hs Dad?? what do you reckon?
: )

Going back to the beginning... I wonder if he was actually registered as Smith, but later found out he wasn't actually John's son ?
Have you checked this one out ?

Births Jun 1893
SMITH John William Warrington 8c 229

I'm wondering why Mary Gerrard was also listed as Walley/Whalley on the marriage index.

Did her "father" have a different name?
Was she born Gerrard ?

here's that 1871 census with the Gerrards -


WARBURTON, John Head M 35 1836 Lancashire VIEW
WARBURTON, Mary Wife F 35 1836 Lancashire VIEW
GERRARD, John Relative M 14 1857 Lancashire VIEW
GERRARD, William Relative M 14 1857 Lancashire VIEW
WARBURTON, Thomas Son M 9 1862 Lancashire VIEW
WARBURTON, Joseph Son M 4 1867 Lancashire VIEW
WARBURTON, Mary Anna Daughter F 2 1869 Lancashire VIEW
WARBURTON, Richard Son M 0 1871 Lancashire VIEW

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RG number:
RG10 Piece:
3907 Folio:
62 Page:
25

Registration District:
Warrington Sub District:
Warrington Enumeration District:
26 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Warrington Municipal Borough:
Warrington Address:
Chisnall's Yard, Warrington County:
Lancashire




Marriages Sep 1857 (>99%)
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*****Gerrard Mary Warrington 8c 146
Walley Mary Warrington 8c 146
*****Warburton John Warrington 8c 146
Whalley Mary Warrington 8c 146

Anything is possible.
I searched for a marriage cert for years in the name of Swales... only to find it written as Waters (not even close !) in the index but the original clearly says Swales.
Is your Warrington cert an actually photocopy of the original or a typed or re-written copy ?

Hi Michael
Harriets birth certificate says born OLD ROAD, LATCHFORD WARRINGTON, NOT Bury so unsure if the above is correct, but what you could have a good point on is the marriage showing a Mary Gerrard to a John Warburton! Only reason is, a friend sent me a census last night showing a John (aged 35) & Mary Warburton (aged 35) and living them was a Thomas Warburton (Son) and two RELATIVES, John & William GERRARD!! Now I only get Garratt off the birth cert I received from the Warrington Registrar yesterday, could she have misread the original document? or is that impossible?
thanks again

I assume this is the marriage you think is John and Mary who has 3 names listed (none of which is Garratt) !


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Marriages Sep 1857

Gerrard Mary Warrington 8c 146
Walley Mary Warrington 8c 146
Warburton John Warrington 8c 146
Whalley Mary Warrington 8c 146

So is this Harriet as a child with family (mother Maria not Mary)

John WARBURTON Head M Male 48 Tottington, Lancashire, England Cotton Spinner
Maria WARBURTON Wife M Female 41 Summerseat, Lancashire, England
James WARBURTON Son Male 13 Bury, Lancashire, England Back Tenter
Mary J. WARBURTON Daur Female 11 Bury, Lancashire, England Back Tenter
Alice A. WARBURTON Daur Female 8 Bury, Lancashire, England Scholar
*******************Harriet WARBURTON Daur Female 6 Bury, Lancashire, England Scholar
Robert WARBURTON Son Male 2 Bury, Lancashire, England
George WARBURTON Father W Male 79 Bury, Lancashire, England
George WARBURTON Boarder U Male 18 Bury, Lancashire, England Carter


Dwelling 33 Wellington St
Census Place Elton, Lancashire, England

it is weird isn't it...so there are none 1893?And also as I learned Harriet Warburton was born 1873 to Mother Mary (maiden name Garratt) and Father John Warburton, and knowing she had a Brother Thomas b. 1867 ish, I cannot find them as a family living together which again I find it strange as usually there is some clue, with guessing the parent sbeing 20-30 when the kids are born...
thanks Michael

This is the only other John Warburton born Warrington but it's too early.

Births Jun 1890

Warburton John Warrington 8c 244

n

Well thanks to your help and searches I applied for and received the marriage cert for Harriet Warburton to William Smith in 1894...it proved to be right as the witness was Thomas Warburton (Who was listed as Harriets Brother on a census). I also applied for Son, John Warburton Birth cert 1892 (based upon her having him out of wedlock), but sadly this is not the right one : ( Mother is Elizabeth. Based on census, and John William Warburtons marriage cert, he could have been born 1892, 93 or 94! Can anyone help maybe find another possibility please for John William Warburton born Warrington? Harriet got married Jan 1894 and she named her Son Warburton, so I guess 1893 before the wedding to Mr Smith?

thank you

Cool : )
I have had a quick squiz and seen a possible Harriet lodging aged 18 ...pity I couldn't pinn her down livign with her Brother at any point : (

Good thinking as she is a rag collector previously. The writing is a bit messy generally so I would say that's it.
Jan